Posts by Kenneson

40

Women are Not the Glory of God

by JosephAlward in

no teaching in the bible is clearer, more consistent, than the one which teaches that women are inferior to men.

below i show that it is taught that the woman was created from man, for man, that man is the glory of god, but woman is not.

furthermore, the evangelist paul says that he'll not abide women teaching men, and he refers to genesis to explain why.

Women are Not the Glory of God

by JosephAlward in

no teaching in the bible is clearer, more consistent, than the one which teaches that women are inferior to men.

below i show that it is taught that the woman was created from man, for man, that man is the glory of god, but woman is not.

furthermore, the evangelist paul says that he'll not abide women teaching men, and he refers to genesis to explain why.

Simplesally:
It might be interesting to note that Judith, 1 Maccabees, 2
Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), Tobit, Wisdom were all included in the first King James Bibles. Albeit, they were not considered "canon" by Protestants, but apocrophal, they were included in the King James as
devotional reading.

40

Women are Not the Glory of God

by JosephAlward in

no teaching in the bible is clearer, more consistent, than the one which teaches that women are inferior to men.

below i show that it is taught that the woman was created from man, for man, that man is the glory of god, but woman is not.

furthermore, the evangelist paul says that he'll not abide women teaching men, and he refers to genesis to explain why.

Kenneson

Syn:
Don't forget two other books about women--Ruth and Judith.

I accept the Old Testament as well, but this thread began with
quotes from the New Testament, so I am concentrating on those first.

Yes, God is depicted as a male in Scripture. So I can only go by that. Had God been depicted
as a female, I would have no problem with that either. Instead of talking about Father I would speak about Mother. But then I guess
men would then feel inferior?

40

Women are Not the Glory of God

by JosephAlward in

no teaching in the bible is clearer, more consistent, than the one which teaches that women are inferior to men.

below i show that it is taught that the woman was created from man, for man, that man is the glory of god, but woman is not.

furthermore, the evangelist paul says that he'll not abide women teaching men, and he refers to genesis to explain why.

Kenneson

I don't hold to the opinion of those who see "subordination" in
Paul (Eph. 5:22) as connoting inferiority. It is not a term of ruler and ruled or leader and led, but of mutual service in love. Unfortunately the word carries a bad rap. It conjures up image of doormat passiviy and domineering authority. But in order to understand the meaning we must look at Jesus' relationship to the Father. Jesus is anything but passive. In fact, the relationship of the Father and Son is characterized by a mutual outpouring of love--the Father loving the Son, the Son loving the Father and the Holy Spirit bursting forth from that love. Far from holding back, the Father gives everything to the Son and the Son returns everything to the Father. This is hardly an oppressive, demeaning model, but one of total freedom, and total dignity.

It is in the context of this freedom and dignity that all believers are called to subordinate themselves first of all to Christ (vs. 21)
Before Paul even begins to talk about marriage, he locates man and woman as co-equals in the body of Christ. Here, he is speaking to the whole body of believers. We are called to subordinate ourselves to one another--to pour out our lives in mutual love and service.

Marriage, then becomes one instance, one expression, of this mutual
subordination. Paul is not trumpeting a man's rights over a woman's; on the contrary, he is presenting an incredibly profound Christological view of marriage. By using the term subordination, he purposefully evokes the self-giving love of the Father-Son-Holy Spirit
as our model of relating.

We can see these thoughts developed further in the verses that follow. Paul exhorts husbands to love (agape) their wives as Christ loved the Church. God as the head of Christ, Christ as the head of man and the Church (Eph. 1:22-23 & Col. 1:18) and man as the head of woman
doesn't denigrate anyone. One who leads should do so by word and
example, by caring and loving not by being bossy and mean.

In Luke 22:24-27 we are told that the kings of the Gentiles lord it over their subjects, but it is not to be so among his followers.
True leaders serve and are not themselves served by others.

40

Women are Not the Glory of God

by JosephAlward in

no teaching in the bible is clearer, more consistent, than the one which teaches that women are inferior to men.

below i show that it is taught that the woman was created from man, for man, that man is the glory of god, but woman is not.

furthermore, the evangelist paul says that he'll not abide women teaching men, and he refers to genesis to explain why.

Kenneson

Joseph writes: "After Jesus' mother had said that he was 'out of his mind,' and appeared outside a house to 'take charge of him' (Mark 3:21), Mark does not have Jesus invite her inside, nor does Mark have Jesus go outside to greet her. Instead, Mark has Jesus make it clear to his followers inside the house that he does not regard the woman outside his mother."

Now how do you determine from Mark 3:21 that Mary was one of the relatives who thought Jesus crazy? They are not identified. Then
it goes on to speak of the scribes who had also come thought he
was possessed. Finally, in vs. 31 "His mother and his brothers
arrived." Now when Jesus asked: "Who are my mother and my brothers"
was he denying that Mary was his mother filialy? Or is he showing that doing God's will (vs. 35) is more important in the kingdom?
Moreover, was Jesus even of the opinion that his mother didn't believe in him? Other passages in Scripture would not agree with
that. Luke 1:30- 32, for example, has the angel tell Mary that Jesus "will be great and will be called Son of the Most High."
Vs. 38 has Mary say: "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word." And Elizabeth tells Mary:
"Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled." Where is there any indication in Scripture that Mary did not do the will of God? "...whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother." Mary did the will of God. Jesus was not rejecting her, but broadening the concept of family to a spiritual one. John 19:25-27 indicates that when Jesus is about to be crucified he entrusts his mother into the care of his disciple John, telling him "Behold your mother." And Acts 1:14 has Mary
and Jesus' brothers there in the first community of believers in
Jerusalem.

40

Women are Not the Glory of God

by JosephAlward in

no teaching in the bible is clearer, more consistent, than the one which teaches that women are inferior to men.

below i show that it is taught that the woman was created from man, for man, that man is the glory of god, but woman is not.

furthermore, the evangelist paul says that he'll not abide women teaching men, and he refers to genesis to explain why.

Kenneson

The Prominence of Women in the New Testament

While there are many models of women of faith in the Old Testament
(Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel, Leah, Meriam, Deborah, Abigail, Rahab, Ruth
and Naomi, Abigail, etc.), I want to concentrate on the New Testament.

Anna (Luke 2:36-38)--she was a widow who lived in the Temple for more than 60 years fasting and praying. When Mary and Joseph brought Jesus to the Temple, Anna prophesied that he was the deliverer they had long awaited.

Elizabeth (Luke 2:5-7, 57-60)--she was the mother of John the Baptist,
whose work paved the way for Jesus; she also named John. She also blessed Mary, the mother of Jesus (Luke 1:42-45)

Mary (Luke 1:26-31)--mother of Jesus and blessed among all women.

Jesus flouted the conventions of his day by including women among his disciples (Mk. 15:40-41; Lk. 24:10; Jn. 19:25) His traveling band included a number of women. Joanna was the wife of the chief steward in Herod's court; Salome was the mother of James and John. Mary, the
wife of Clopas, was the mother of James the Less and of Joses. And
Mary Magdalene was the first witness of the Resurrection.

Mary and Martha (see Jn. 11 and Lk. 10:38-42) did not travel with Jesus but were among his closest friends. Their home in Bethany, a few miles southeast of Jerusalem, was a favorite refuge and resting
place for Jesus.

Several of Jesus' healings involved women: Simon Peter's mother in law of fever (Luke 4:38-39); a twelve year old girl (Luke 8:41-42, 49-56). He healed a woman with a 12 year infirmity (verses 43-48). And he healed a woman who had been crippled 18 years (Luke 13:10-17)

Jesus in his parables used women as good examples. The woman who found the lost coin (Luke 15:8-10); the widow who kept going to a judge to obtain justice (Luke 18:1-5); the poor widow who gave two small coins to the temple (Luke 21:1-4)

Women were there at Pentecost (Acts 1:14) and continued to play a central role in the life of the Christian congregation. Dorcas
(see Acts 9:36-42) was a seamstress and philanthropist in the city of Joppa. She had a ministry of almsgiving and good deeds.

Lydia (see Acts 16:14-40) was a tradeswoman in Philippi, a woman of wealth and influence. She was a "dealer in purple color"--a merchant of one of the region's most valuable commodities. She was Paul's first convert at Philippi. She brought her whole household into the new faith and opened her home to Paul and Silas, providing them a place to teach and celebrate the Lord's Supper.

Paul also converted some reputable Greek women (Acts 17:12; one named Damaris in vs. 34).

Priscilla shared with her husband Aquila) the office of instruction (Acts 18:26)

Nympha (Colossians 3:15)--a congregation meets in her house

Lois and Eunice are responsibile for handing down the faith to
Timothy (2 Tim. 1:5). At the end of 2 Tim. greetings sent include one to Claudia. Philemon 2 mentions Apphia.

Romans 16 includes several women: Phoebe, who is a minister of he congregation that is in Cenchreae. Priscilla and Aquila are fellow workers in Christ, with a congregation meeting in their house.
Greet Mary 9 ( vs. 6), who has performed many labors for you. Greet
Tryphaena and Tryphosa,(vs. 12) women who have worked hard in the Lord. Greet Persis our beloved one, for she performed many labors in the Lord. See also verses 13 and 15.

So rather than being insignificant in the New Testament, we see
that women played a major role.

5

Looking for Several Pieces of Info

by Valis in

jw
friends

my room mate and i have been discussing the origins of the catholic stance on priests and celibacy.

we're currently stuck on the concept of peter, the first pope, having been married.

this kind of throws a kink in their whole foundation imho.

Kenneson

Jesus was celibate. So was St. Paul (1Cor. 7:10)

36

Most Frightening Door to Door Experience

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

in my hometown, this other witness and i were.

going from door to door one day when we reached one particular house.. the householder became so agitated by the presence of jws.

that he "sicked" his dog on us, but thank god it had a muzzle.

Kenneson

In my hometown, this other Witness and I were
going from door to door one day when we reached one particular house.
The householder became so agitated by the presence of Jws
that he "sicked" his dog on us, but thank God it had a muzzle
and was unable to bite us. Not satisfied with that, he called the town cop who came over to talk to us, but after questioning us did not stop us.
That was the most frightening experience in field service that
I ever had. I'm sure there are better ones. Would anyone
like to share?

42

Did you have a "religious experience" ?

by refiners fire in

jw
friends

by "religious experience" i mean a moment, an incident, where you felt that god was directly addressing you thru a public talk, a watchtower article.

did god give you a "sign" that convicted you of the truth of "the truth"?.

my mother told me about one she had.

Kenneson

This happened to me after I left the Witnesses. I was reading
Matt. 25 when I suddenly felt "convicted" that I was doing none
of the things Jesus said I should be doing. I was not feeding the
hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and those in prison,
receiving strangers, etc. So I decided to rectify this and my
life's work since has been to run a soup kitchen at a shelter (I
get opportunities to receive strangers, clothe the needy, etc.)
I also visit prisoners through Prison Fellowship.

2

The Two Cow Explanation

by Kenneson in

the two-cow explanation of what makes.... a christian democrat:.

you have two cows.

you think you have two cows, but you don't know what a cow looks like.

Kenneson

The Two-Cow Explanation of WHAT MAKES...

A CHRISTIAN DEMOCRAT:
You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbor.

A SOCIALIST:
You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.

A REPUBLICAN:
You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So What?

A DEMOCRAT:
You have two cows. You neigbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel righeous.

A COMMUNIST:
You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk.

A FASCIST:
You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the milk.
You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.

DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow, which was a gift from your government.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the milk down the drain.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You sell one and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead.

A FRENCH CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size
of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk.

A GERMAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You reengineer hem so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows but you don't know where they are. You break for lunch.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka.

A MEXICAN CORPORATION:
You think you have two cows, but you don't know what a cow looks like. You take a siesta (nap).

A SWISS CORPORATION:
You have 5000 cows, none of which belongs to you. You charge for storing them for others.

A BRAZILIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You enter into a partnership with an American corporation Soon you have 1000 cows and the American corporation declares bankruptcy.

AN INDIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You worship them.