this is my response to a true believer who emailed me about my claims that the gospel stories were plagiarized from scriptural antecedents, and about my claim that jesus showed disrepect for parents--if you can believe the bible:.
do you have proof -- not your insights -- for your claim that the bible is nothing but a mimmic of ancient myth?.
evidence is all i have.
Joe writes: Which seems more reasonable: Luke and Matthew were mistaken about what Jesus said, or that Jesus really did say those words, but they were not meant to be taken literally.
I figure that Matthew & Luke both understood what Jesus was saying.
The problem is how it comes through to you and I. And apparently we both perceive it differently. And I'll leave it at that.
russell's instructions for his funeral .
i desire to be buried in the plot of ground owned by our society, in the rosemont united cemetery, and all the details of arrangements respecting the funeral service i leave in the care of my sister, mrs. m. m. land, and her daughters, alice and may, or such of them as may survive me, with the assistance and advice and cooperation of the brethren, as they may request the same.
instead of an ordinary funeral discourse, i request that they arrange to have a number of the brethren, accustomed to public speaking, make a few remarks each, that the service be very simple and inexpensive and that it be conducted in the bible house chapel or any other place that may be considered equally appropriate or more so.
I found the pictures of Russell's gravestone at:
http://www.freeminds.org/history/cemetary.htm
this is my response to a true believer who emailed me about my claims that the gospel stories were plagiarized from scriptural antecedents, and about my claim that jesus showed disrepect for parents--if you can believe the bible:.
do you have proof -- not your insights -- for your claim that the bible is nothing but a mimmic of ancient myth?.
evidence is all i have.
Luke 14:26 in its totality reads: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own soul, he cannot be my disciple."
Is Jesus really teaching disrespect here? Not if one understands that this is a parable meant to teach the demands of discipleship.
While Luke 14:16-24 places emphasis on the absolute gratuity of God's election, verses 25-35 develop the flip-side of that election, full-hearted response on the part of disciples. The parable calls on the necessity of reflection before action. Those who want to follow Jesus on the way must weigh the costs. Jesus' followers must not recoil before any "sacrifice" required of them to see their following of him through the end. Disciples must place Jesus above everyone and everything else. And if you can't make HIM number one, then you really can't be his disciple. You can't be half-hearted toward Jesus.
not that i am advocating one church over another.
rather, i'm just trying to make the point that other religions (such as the two cited below) have an organized preaching work.
jehovah's witnesses use the reasonings of, "who else carries out the commission to preach?
One day one of St. Francis' friends asked Francis to teach him how to preach. So they took off in the Italian village and walked through it. The friend protested. "I thought we were going to preach."
Francis replied, "We just did." "Preach the gospel and when necessary use words."
If you want to know who a person is look at what he is and does, not so much what he says. The mouth has a tendency to lie, but its hard to fool what you are and do. The best sermon preached is the example you are. You've got to not only talk the talk, but walk the walk.
as we know the bible records stuff till the end of the first century.. then we have the dark/middle ages....until 1870-something.. hence comes charles t. russell.
and the "organization" and "faithful and discreet slave" is here.. .
ok thats the reality..... i grew up a jw.
Gravedancer:
This was one of my main reasons for leaving the Jws. Historically, who were these "witnesses" in the interim? The Watchtower tells us they were there, but fails to identify them.
Do they include the Arians, the Waldensians, the Albigensians, etc.?
If so, would these groups want to be Jws? And would they be disfellowshipped for some of their beliefs that don't coincide with Watchtower teachings?
Next problem. If these unidentified "witnesses" were able to
read the Bible without the W.T. Society explaining it to them and
come to an understanding of the truth and still be Jws. on their own, what prevents people from doing so today? If people learned the truth without the Watchtower governing body, why is the Society indispensable today?
Does it make sense that Jesus would come and a governing body would soon result after his death and then this governing body would disappear and then everyone had to wait until Russell re-instituted it? Why would Jesus
do such a nonsensible thing? He might as well have waited to come in 1878 instead.
How could Russell do what Jesus could not and that is see to it that there would be a continuance of the governing body throughout the ages? If there had been a governing body when Russell came on the scene, he should have consulted it and would not have had to branch out on his own.
The so-called Apostasy mentioned be St. Paul doesn't explain it. Some people fell away from God, but not all the people could fall away. That's why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit. And if the whole body of believers apostasied in the 4th century under Constantine, what prevents that from happening again in our day? If Jesus couldn't assure the continuity of believers in his day, how can the Watchtower do so today?
the local jw elders are kissin our asses to try to get us back into the fold---membership must be really really low to resort to this -- queenie is in a state of shock....lov ya ((((hugs)))) they corner us at the local bus transit cuz it is public and not our private residence !!!!
jwa will do anything wont they>>>>
Fred:
Preach you can, save you can't.
it is a fact that the end is coming.. whether it's the end of your natural life or the end of this world, one thing is for certain, the end is near.
Are we speaking of the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?
the local jw elders are kissin our asses to try to get us back into the fold---membership must be really really low to resort to this -- queenie is in a state of shock....lov ya ((((hugs)))) they corner us at the local bus transit cuz it is public and not our private residence !!!!
jwa will do anything wont they>>>>
Fred,
I beg to differ with you. It is not any human's job to save anyone. You seem to forget that men are only instruments to carry Jesus' message. The real Savior is Jesus. No JW or anyone else can save anyone. We must be careful not to think too highly of ourselves.
although this is actually a book review, i thought it might better go here because it brought up issues that are especially pertinent for us here on the board in light of the bryant, long, slack, stovall and freeman (and so many many more)family tragedies.. facing the lion: review and comments.
short summary: .
facing the lion is the autobiographical account of a young girls faith and courage.
Yes, JWs were persecuted by the Nazis, but so were Jews, Catholics, Protestants, and others. But the Watchtower only tells you one side of the story (the persecution they underwent). They don't tell you how it all came about. See http://www.freeminds.org/history/sleeping.htm
i actually stepped into a catholic church for the first time in my life last sunday.
i friend of mine didn't have anyone to go with her, so i offered take her.
i went mostly out of curiousity.
I was a JW for 7 and a half years before returning to the Catholic Church. All the while I was a Witness I was in a state of confusion, doubt and questioning. It was the questioning that led me right back to where I began. Now I can read Scripture and see that the Watchtower explanation is not the only one. Except for sickness or lack of transportation, I seldom miss Sunday Mass. And I enjoyed the Easter liturgy, too.
