Posts by fulltimestudent

8

The Superior Qualities of Ancient Roman Concrete

by fulltimestudent in

these concrete walls in trajan's markets in rome are nearly 2000 years old and survived a major earthquake in 1349 ce.. .

caption: the concrete walls of trajan's markets in rome have stood the test of time and the elements for nearly 2,000 years.

they have even survived a major earthquake in 1349.. credit: photo courtesy of marie jackson, berkeley.

fulltimestudent

And, slightly before that, between 23 and 15 BCE, Herod instructed his engineers to build this harbour - claimed as the largest ever built (to that point in time)

(See aerial view of the harbour at Link, and notes at : http://web.uvic.ca/~jpoleson/ROMACONS/Caesarea2005.htm )

Named Sebastos (the Greek equivalent of Augustus), the harbour of Caesarea Palaestine, also known in Greek as Caesarea on the Sea,was founded on a shifting sand beach devoid of any mitigating physical features. The shoreline was exposed to the longest fetch in the Mediterranean and scoured by a strong long-shore current that carried sand from south to north. The site had been selected primarily for political reasons, not because nature favoured the construction of a port at this location (Holum and Hohlfelder 1988). Once the royal decision had been made, it was up to King Herod’s builders to execute his desires, even though they faced design and construction challenges never before encountered by Mediterranean harbour engineers (Hohlfelder, 2000 and 2003). Underwater excavation and exploration have been carried out in the submerged ruins of Herod’s vast harbour complex almost continuously since 1960 in an effort to understand how this daunting ancient engineering project was executed so quickly and expertly in the face of seemingly insurmountable obstacles. The bibliography on the underwater excavations at Caesarea Palaestinae is considerable. Most published works relevant to this article are listed in the references section of Oleson et al. 2004, 228-9. This archaeological research has produced a vast literature that has revealed some, but not all, of the secrets of Sebastos.

Since 2002, the Roman Maritime Concrete Study (ROMACONS) has been conducting fieldwork in Italy, collecting cores from maritime structures constructed of Roman hydraulic concrete, and building an underwater reproduction of a pila or pier using materials and tools that would have been available to Roman builders (Oleson et al., 2004a, 2004b; Hohlfelder et al., 2005; Oleson et al., 2006). So far, we have collected cores from Roman maritime structures at Portus, Anzio, Cosa, Santa Liberata, and Baia. Roman hydraulic concrete consisted of a mortar made from lime, pozzolana (a sand-like volcanic ash naturally rich in aluminosilicates), and water, to which various types of rubble aggregate was added. The resultant mixture was a hard and durable concrete that could solidify underwater

8

The Superior Qualities of Ancient Roman Concrete

by fulltimestudent in

these concrete walls in trajan's markets in rome are nearly 2000 years old and survived a major earthquake in 1349 ce.. .

caption: the concrete walls of trajan's markets in rome have stood the test of time and the elements for nearly 2,000 years.

they have even survived a major earthquake in 1349.. credit: photo courtesy of marie jackson, berkeley.

fulltimestudent

These concrete walls in Trajan's markets in Rome are nearly 2000 years old and survived a major earthquake in 1349 CE.

Caption: The concrete walls of Trajan's Markets in Rome have stood the test of time and the elements for nearly 2,000 years. They have even survived a major earthquake in 1349.

Credit: Photo courtesy of Marie Jackson, Berkeley

4

boyarins book the jewish gospels: the story of the jewish christ poses challenges and each needs to be tested.. his dominant themes, as far as i can make out, are that the term son of god comes from the anointing (messiah/christ) of king david, whereas the term son of man derives from the divine figure at daniel 7. for boyarin, therefore, son of god refers to jesus humanity whereas son of man refers to his perceived divinity.. he correctly writes: oceans of ink and forests of trees have given their substance so that humans could continue to argue about where the term son of man came from and what it means.

and boyarins is an added voice.. i am not saying whether i am necessarily in agreement with him or not; i need to examine every instance where these expressions are employed by nt writers and come to my own conclusion.

fulltimestudent

Doug Mason: fulltimestudent,

Boyarin’s book “The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ” poses challenges and each needs to be tested.

I agree, Doug. And I'll comment further on that in a moment.

My first thought was, Who is this guy, what is his standing in scholarly circles? In the foreword to the book we are discussing, another scholar, Jack Miles tells that a 'prominent, conservative rabbi," thought that Boyarin 'may' be the greatest rabbinic scholar in the world. That opinion sent me scurrying to google to search Jack Miles. Who is he? He turns out to have something of an academic record also.

Reference: http://www.faculty.uci.edu/profile.cfm?faculty_id=5508

Of course, that may not mean much, but at this moment, I have not spent much time researching Judaism, so for a little while scholarly reputations are of some importance.

And what of Boyarin? His University of California bio is at: http://nes.berkeley.edu/Web_Boyarin/BoyarinHomePage.html

Education: Professor Boyarin began his education at Goddard College and received his Masters of Hebrew Literature at the Jewish Theological Seminary. His Education continued with a Masters of Semitic Languages at Columbia University where he did his thesis on The Babylonian Aramaic Verb According to Codex Hamburg. He was awarded with a Doctorate Degree in 1975 from the Jewish Theological Seminary of America upon completion of his dissertation on A Critical Edition of the Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Nazir.

Present Appointment: Hermann P. and Sophia Taubman Professor of Talmudic Culture, Departments of Near Eastern Studies and Rhetoric, University of California at Berkeley, Affiliated Member Department of Women's Studies, Member of core faculty in the minor in Gay and Lesbian Studies and of the graduate group in Ancient History and Mediterranean Archaeology, and the designated emphasis in Women, Sexuality, Gender Studies, as well as the core faculty of the Center for the Study of Sexual Culture.

Some interestingaspects to his Berkeley appointment in Gender studies. An interesting range of studies.

There is more detail at:

http://nes.berkeley.edu/Web_Boyarin/boyarin_cv.html#publications

including his publications.

And again, its not so much what the man is, but how he can arrange his arguments that matters. But his background gives some reason for confidence in spending time on his thougts

--------------------------------------------------------

You further posted:

fulltimestudent,

Boyarin’s book “The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ” poses challenges and each needs to be tested.

His dominant themes, as far as I can make out, are that the term “Son of God” comes from the anointing (Messiah/Christ) of King David, whereas the term “Son of Man” derives from the divine figure at Daniel 7. For Boyarin, therefore, “Son of God” refers to Jesus’ humanity whereas “Son of Man” refers to his perceived divinity.

Agreement again, but my interest was sparked by the thought that second temple Judaism may not have been as monotheistic as I/we have thought. Here, in his discussion of Daniel Ch. 7, I agree with Boyarin that this is prima fascie evidence that some/someone in the Judaism of the time had thoughts of 'God' being more than one, or at least two gods, (need to look at that further). So why? Was it more Greek tradition intermixing with Jewish tradition?

There are at present a helter-skelter of ideas in my mind. We know that Greek philosophy was moving to a concept of a 'chief God, and we have sudden appearances of a monotheistic outlook at earlier times (thinking of Aten). Iranian Zoroastrianism was also monotheistic and some Indian thought may have been.

So when anyone says the first followers of Jesus were monotheistic, were they really understanding what we understand as monotheism? Did that vision of Daniel ch. 7, have something to do with the way the first followers of Jesus conceived of Jesus?

After all that, I think you will understand that it may be some months before I can make a sensible responce to Boyarin's arguments. (Not least, because the academics that I talk to will be scattered far and wide for (our) summer holidays. University does not resume until last week of February.

Thank you again for bring his book to our attention.

PS: I will contact you shortly to obtain your kind offer of a summary.

8

US-Cuba diplomatic breakthrough: Obama and Castro agree to thaw relations after prisoner exchange

by fulltimestudent in

who'd have thought it possible?

but that's a headline this morning in the canberra times.. us-cuba diplomatic breakthrough: obama and castro agree to thaw relations after prisoner exchange.

date: december 18, 2014 - 5:37am.

fulltimestudent

Who'd have thought it possible? But that's a headline this morning in The Canberra Times.

US-Cuba diplomatic breakthrough: Obama and Castro agree to thaw relations after prisoner exchange

Date: December 18, 2014 - 5:37AM
Nick O'Malley
President Barack Obama has opened the door to restoring full diplomatic relations with Cuba after 50 years of sanctions and embargo, announcing that the US would seek to open an embassy in the coming months and to relax economic and travel restrictions.

The announcement was made after an exchange of jailed spies was negotiated struck and, separately, an American imprisoned in Cuba named Alan Gross, was released.

Three Cuban agents jailed for espionage against Cuban exile groups in Florida in 1998 were exchanged for an unnamed American agent in Cuba who had passed on information about their network.

Link: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/world/uscuba-diplomatic-breakthrough-obama-and-castro-agree-to-thaw-relations-after-prisoner-exchange-20141217-129fcs.html

You can hear or read Obama's reasons for the change of policy in a video embedded in the article in the above link.

Its a good change - sanctions hurt LITTLE people more than they hurt BIG people.

21

Looking for others that maybe gay or questioning

by dewey79 in

jw
friends

so i am the weird case that i still believe in the jehovah's organization.

there are a couple of things that stop me from going.

is there anyone else out there that still believes?

fulltimestudent

dewey79: So I am the weird case that I still believe in the Jehovah's Organization.

That's OK, but I wanted to mention something that is weird about the imagined "Biblical" attitudes to male2male sex. And you just may like to give it some thought.

You've likely read the words of David, as he reflects the death of Jonathon. Its at 2 Samuel 1:26:

I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me.
Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.

Now, as I remember it, the JWs explain the love between Jonathon and David as agape. But that's not so, the word used is 'ahabah, which Strong's lexicon says means (in English):

love
1. human love for human object
  1. of man toward man
  2. of man toward himself
  3. between man and woman
  4. sexual desire
God's love to His people

I suggest, in view of the context, which has David using love for a woman as a comparison, that the word was written to express the meaning implicit in 1.4, that is, physical love between David and Jonathon.

I know that this becomes a very difficult thought, in view of other biblical texts, but since the Bible is made up of so many different documents, we are likely seeing an extract from some other document that may have been redacted into the document now known as 2 Samuel.

But let's attempt to see, not the end of David and Jonathon's relationship (As in Jonathon's death) but the beginning of their love story.

1 Samuel 17: 42, describes how attractive David was. And with that in mind, now take a look at ch. 18: 1-4,

After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. 2 From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home to his family. 3 And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. 4 Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.

How, or why, this love story got into the Bible, is something I cannot explain. But there were many ancient love stories involving two men, explore those if you want to understand the culture of that time. But why not start with this Bible example.

31

life after the wtbts

by Hortensia in

jw
friends

you can't move forward to a new, more interesting, possibly much happier life, if you're still looking behind at the former life.. there is so much obsession on here about what the wtbts is doing, and discussing all the forms of injustice and bullshit in the wtbts, or how to bring down the wtbts.

yes, their doctrines are crazy and they are a cult and cruel to boot.

move on.

fulltimestudent

Magnum: it seems to me that Hortensia is thinking that some are obsessed with JWdom and that it's holding them back from life. My point is that we can be very interested in the goings-on in JWdom and still be going on with our lives. Can't individuals be extremely interested in gardening or particle physics or horses or sports, spending a lot of time on such interests, and still have normal lives? Of course they can.

I agree with you, Magnum. I have a wide range of interests, including some that (some others) likely think I have TOO MUCH interest in. At the core of my interests is the spectacular rise of China, followed by attempting to gain an insight into East Asian thought and ethic, followed by a study of early Christianity.(All of course, Asian related -grin).

But like you, I like to keep an eye on what is happening inside JW.com. After all, I spent near 40 (lost) years within that prison, not all of them bad.

I've also known (as much as we can know someone on the internet) Hortensia for a long time (and this and another XJW site) and I suggest Hortensia was thinking of the best way to move on, from the mentality that the Christ witnesses of Jehovah inculcated in us.

29

Greek Mythology influence on New Testament

by Magnum in

a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.

as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.

why would bible writers have used such terms?

fulltimestudent

Doug Mason:

Doug Mason: The first people who wrote and accepted the idea of a God-becoming-man were Jews.

OK, thnks for bringing the book, "The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ," to our attention. I managed to get to SU this afternoon and borrowed the book. The study unit in which I enrolled this past semester, made it very clear that the first followers of Jesus, even after his death, were Jewish, and that their Judaism was as important to the first, as their belief in Jesus. And now, Daniel Boyarin makes a compelling case that Daniel ch. 7 is the origin of the divinity of Jesus. I'll look forward to discussing it at some point with Dr Chris Forbes, who convened my study unit last semester.

After only a couple of thoughtful hours of reading, I can recommend " The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ ," as a start to a better understanding of the development of the divine Jesus among the early believers.

It also (to me, anyway) confirms my understanding that the character Jesus was deluded.

29

Greek Mythology influence on New Testament

by Magnum in

a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.

as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.

why would bible writers have used such terms?

fulltimestudent

And one city on that map is important in a search to understand the influence of Greek/Hellenic thought on Jewish (including Christianity) holy writings:

Miletus was a Greek coastal city on the western shores of what we know as Asia Minor. It is interesting to us because a revolution in thinking occurred here roughly at the beginning of the sixth century BCE. The revolution replaced mythos with logos. Foundation myths that had attempted to explain why the world existed, were replaced, by logos as the human rational faculty that began to look for explanations within a framework of general hypotheses. In other words, scientific rationalism began to take the place of superstition.

Robin Waterfield, in his book, The First Philosophers, The Presocratics and Sophist, (Oxford University Press, Re-issue 2009) examines what we know of the men who are said to have, as far as the west is concerned, invented philosophy and science. Among the first are Thales, Anaximenes and Anaximander, all of whom lived in Miletus. It’s also a city that, according to NT traditions, was visited by Paul. But the reason I mention it here, is that it was also a city that would have been part of the coastal trade routes and the land routes of West Asia.

Wakefield suggests that “Ideas always travels with trade.” And to him, the location of Miletus, on a trade route linked to the older cultures of Babylon, Egypt, Lydia and Phoenicia, brought mythos to Miletus, from many places. It was also wealthy, and supported a literate, leisured class who had time to think about the various creation myths that were related by travellers, and to speculate for themselves.

It is against this background that Jews redacted their holy writings.

29

Greek Mythology influence on New Testament

by Magnum in

a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.

as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.

why would bible writers have used such terms?

fulltimestudent

To further examine the possible influence of Greek Mythology, think about the implications evident in this map:

This map marks spheres of influence on the shores of the Mediterranean in the sixth C. BCE. The red dots mark Greek cities, colonies and settlements. The yellow dots mark the areas settled by Phoenicians. (The Phoenicians are thought to be Canaanites). While its true that there are no red dots in the Palestine area of that time, we can understand that prior to Nebuchnezzar's destruction of the Jerusalem of the time, there must have been some interaction between Jews and Greeks, as the Greeks traded with Egypt by sea and land.

29

Greek Mythology influence on New Testament

by Magnum in

a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.

as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.

why would bible writers have used such terms?

fulltimestudent

Doug Mason: The first people who wrote and accepted the idea of a God-becoming-man were Jews.

Doug, I have not read, "The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ," but Sydney Uni Library has a copy, and I shall look at it soon, as I am not sure about the thought, expressed in the concept, "The first people who wrote and accepted the idea of a God-becoming-man were Jews." If the author is considering the thought expressed in Genesis 18> then I understand, otherwise I would have to consider, at least in western thought, that the Greeks were first.

Robin Lane Fox discusses the concept in his "Pagans and Christians in the Mediterranean World," chapter 4, titled, "Seeing the Gods." He draws attention to the writings of Homer (Ninth or Twelfth century BCE) in his epics the Gods were not just onlookers, they became participants and, 'stand beside' their heroes, as 'evident helpers.' At the end of the Iliad, Priam (an elderly man), afraid, defenceless, sets out to go to Achilles's camp. On his journey he meets a handsome young man who became his guide. Priam explains his guide as divine assistance. "Some God has held his hand over me." The young man turns out to be Hermes.

Understanding that common and age-old belief, helps us understand the crowd response in the claimed incident in Lystra, when Paul performs a miracle,

" The gods have come down to us in human form! Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker." (Acts 14: 11,12)