fulltimestudent
JoinedPosts by fulltimestudent
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A brief overview of concepts of how life developed - from the UK BBC
by fulltimestudent inhttp://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20161026-the-secret-of-how-life-on-earth-began.
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Jesus Christ was no Moses
by smiddy inmoses has a history of what 80+ years as a servant of jehovah ?
in one form or another .. moses wrote / penned the first five books of the bible and went through many trials and tribulations in serving his god jehovah in his long lifetime.interacting with god at times.. jesus was born and nothing is recorded of him until he is a young adolescent child ?
and very little about him.. then we are introduced to him when he is 30 years old and gets baptised ,and only then does he start his preaching .. does he start preaching to the world ?
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fulltimestudent
Stevie Wonder Boy : Jesus was way ahead of his time and he taught accordingly.
What leads you to believe that Stevie?
We are totally dependent on the words of men writing two decades after Jesus. Human memories are not accurate, and we can hardly trust any of the 'word for word' speeches that the gospel writers place in the mouth of Jesus.
When you try to analyse what the gospel writers claim that Jesus taught, its mostly a regurgitation of existing (tradtional) Jewish beliefs and first century BCE Jewish thinking, mixed up with a few other things, for example the claims in Matthew 19, regarding divorce was really based on the Augustan (Roman) law code.
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Jesus Christ was no Moses
by smiddy inmoses has a history of what 80+ years as a servant of jehovah ?
in one form or another .. moses wrote / penned the first five books of the bible and went through many trials and tribulations in serving his god jehovah in his long lifetime.interacting with god at times.. jesus was born and nothing is recorded of him until he is a young adolescent child ?
and very little about him.. then we are introduced to him when he is 30 years old and gets baptised ,and only then does he start his preaching .. does he start preaching to the world ?
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fulltimestudent
Smiddy: "Thank you David_Jay for putting the Jewish prespective on my post .I was going by memory that the Society said something to that effect that Jesus was a greater Moses but I cant be 100% sure ,"
Hebrew 3:3 certainly featured in the JW storytelling. And, from time to time, the term 'the greater Moses,' was used to describe Jesus.
Hebrews (another anonymous document) also introduced the concepts of 'shadow' (and reality), and 'type' (and antitype) which were once so popular among the JWs (see: You May Survive Armageddon into God's New World).
Of course, the author of Hebrews was, most likely, borrowing an idea from Greek philosophy, that of Plato's "theory of Forms or theory of Ideas (which) argues that non-physical (but substantial) forms (or ideas) represent the most accurate depiction of reality."
As to Moses, I think its fair to say that its difficult to make known history fit the Biblical narrative. Of course, for an Egyptian Prince to turn against his own elite is not an abnormal situation. (Lots of historical dynasties have been overturned by dissident royalty) So the Moses of Acts 7 could be real from the viewpoint of vs 22:
"Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and was powerful in speech and action."
The other details merely reflecting the mythical aspects of the Moses story, that enable Stephen (or the author of Acts) to tell a good story.
If as many scholars suggest, much of the OT was put together by the exiled elite in the Babylonian captivity we might find (in the storyies) all kinds of details that reflect notions copied from other religious backgrounds.
For example, think of these claims:
"Despite the imposing fame associated with Moses, no source mentions him until he emerges in texts associated with the Babylonian exile. A theory developed by Cornelius Tiele in 1872, which had proved influential, and still held in regard by modern scholars, argued that Yahweh was a Midianite god, introduced to the Israelites by Moses, whose father-in-law Jethro was a Midianite priest. It was to such a Moses that Yahweh reveals his real name, hidden from the Patriarchs who knew him only as El Shaddai.
Against this view is the modern consensus that most of the Israelites were native to Palestine. Martin Noth argued that the Pentateuch uses the figure of Moses, originally linked to legends of a Transjordan conquest, as a narrative bracket or late reductional device to weld together 4 of the 5, originally independent, themes of that work. Manfred Görg, and Rolf Krauss the latter in a somewhat sensationalist manner, have suggested that the Moses story is a distortion or transmogrification of the historical pharaoh Amenmose (ca. 1200 BCE), who was dismissed from office and whose name was later simplified to msy (Mose). Aidan Dodson regards this hypothesis as "intriguing, but beyond proof."(Wikipedia entry on Moses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses )
And somehow we have to fit into this story, the very real fact that Palestine was for centuries part of the Egyptian Empire.
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This is somewhat sad - but it's not as sad as talking to a god that never answers you.
by fulltimestudent inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kq7hn0atfe.
i understand its available in the usa and japan..
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fulltimestudent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kq7HN0aTFE
I understand its available in the USA and Japan.
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Idée fixe
by Half banana ini am in france at the moment and hence this french expression used in english speaking psychiatry crossed my mind: the expression is idée fixe (pron.
eeday fix).
this describes the condition in an individual who holds an obsessive attachment to a point of view which is unresponsive to reason and argument.
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fulltimestudent
A possible English equivalent is the cognitive bias known as the anchoring effect:
anchoring effect. Anchoring is a cognitive bias that describes the common human tendency to rely too heavily on the first piece of information offered (the "anchor") when making decisions. During decision making, anchoring occurs when individuals use an initial piece of information to make subsequent judgments.
anchoring effect Archives - PON - Program on Negotiation at Harvard ...
www.pon.harvard.edu/tag/anchoring-effect/Hence the importance that both the JWs and the Catholic church place on the use of Q & A techniques inwitness publications and the Catholic catechism. -
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Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me" What bullshit
by fulltimestudent inmatthew 19:14: "let the little children come to me," .
is often used to prove that jesus cares about little children.
pretty images of jesus hugging kids proves nothing, if within the organisation he controls, he does nothing to protect the innocent.. so does jesus care?.
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fulltimestudent
Matthew 19:14: "Let the little children come to me,"
is often used to prove that Jesus cares about little children. Pretty images of Jesus hugging kids proves nothing, if within the organisation he controls, he does nothing to protect the innocent.
So does Jesus care?
Matthew 28:20 also says:
"And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
By which we understand Jesus claims ownership of his organisation (church). He is ultimately responsible for what happens within his church. So within that church, has he demonstrated his concern, care and protection for little children. The simple answer is NO!
All the scandals connected to child abuse by his appointed officials demonstrate that he does not give a dam.
Think of this revelation in the Australian Inquiry into Child Abuse (particularly within religious organisations).
The Hunter region just north of Sydney, centred on Newcastle, has a population of around 600,000. Within that area, at least 80 Catholic and Anglican priests are alleged to have committed child sex crimes.
So what did Jesus, or his father in heaven, do? Absolutely nothing!
Quote: "the shocking figure includes claims and substantiated complaints against 51 alleged and convicted Hunter Catholic offenders from the 1940s to the 1990s, including 19 priests, 20 Marist Brothers, and 12 teachers, employees and volunteers, a report by the royal commission has found."
I do not believe that any mythical religious figures actually exist, but how can any of the myriads of believers really imagine that their mythical divinities really exercise any love or compassion?
It is not only within the JWs that this problem exists, but within all Christian denominations, and elsewhere for the problem also exists with groups like Buddhists.
Learn a lesson: God (if he existed) does not give a sh*t about you.
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Second Temple Judaism's Iranian Connections - something to think about
by fulltimestudent inthe jw's (and many other christians) believe that their religious beliefs are derived from yhwh who personally taught men of old the truth.. this view is not supported by evidence, on the contrary, when we consider the religious beliefs of neighbouring peoples, we can find evidence that the jewish elite were influenced by the religious beliefs of their surrounding neighbours.. this short video purports to demonstrate a connection between jewish thinking at the start of second temple judaism and the iranians who practised zoroastrianism.
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i (at this time) find the suggestion that the jews conflated their yhwh with the zoroastrian divinity somewhat difficult, but its worth thinking about.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bglgcnjz7_8&t=269s.
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fulltimestudent
The JW's (and many other Christians) believe that their religious beliefs are derived from YHWH who personally taught men of old the truth.
This view is not supported by evidence, on the contrary, when we consider the religious beliefs of neighbouring peoples, we can find evidence that the Jewish elite were influenced by the religious beliefs of their surrounding neighbours.
This short video purports to demonstrate a connection between Jewish thinking at the start of second temple Judaism and the Iranians who practised Zoroastrianism.
I (at this time) find the suggestion that the Jews conflated their YHWH with the Zoroastrian divinity somewhat difficult, but its worth thinking about.
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How consistently were Christians persecuted in the first 200 years of church history?
by fulltimestudent inthis scene from quo vadis is how most christians (of all brands) imagine the early history of christianity.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skdrflc8v9e.
but how close to real-life experience is that modern portrayal?.
two historians from the university of queensland search for the likely truth in this overview.. http://theconversation.com/mythbusting-ancient-rome-throwing-christians-to-the-lions-67365.
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fulltimestudent
careful : Are you asking a question or trying to teach here? Your post does not match your topic label which is framed in the form of a question... Do you expect a response to your posed question or just want an audience?
Apologies, careful, for this late response to your query. That was in part because of some of my own personal circumstances, but also because I couldn't quite figure out precisely why you would ask such a question.
Anyway, here's my response:
1. I post here to 'share' information, which I guess is why most posts are made on this site.
2. The question asked was a rhetorical question, if you are not quite sure of what a rhetorical question is, then here is one explanation - "A rhetorical question is a question that you ask without expecting an answer." There are other similar explanations floating around, so I'll leave it to you to explore.
2. You claim: "Your post does not match your topic label which is framed in the form of a question.."
I disagree. The authors of the cited article, ask a similar question, and then proceed to answer it. If you read their discussion, then I'm confident that you must have seen that question. But in the unlikely event that you did not, I quote:
"Was persecution a consistent imperial policy, and what types of punishments were inflicted on Christians?
Blaming the Emperors
The myth of constant persecution largely stems from two works written in the early fourth century A.D., On the Deaths of the Persecutors by Lactantius, a Christian professor of Latin, and the Church History of Eusebius, bishop of Caesarea in modern-day Israel."They then proceed to answer the question and demonstrate that Eusebius and Lactantius, whose church histories are primarily responsible for the myth that makes early Christianity look more important than it really was, were really propagandists interested only in making the church look important.
Whether you want to continue to believe the rubbish that we were force fed as JWs or not is not my interest. My interest is simply to share the academic information* that comes my way because of my interest in Asian history and its role in the development of the modern world.
* The site that published the author's arguments is an Australian site (there may be other similar sites - havn't checked) mainly publishing information from academic sources.
Happy now?
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How consistently were Christians persecuted in the first 200 years of church history?
by fulltimestudent inthis scene from quo vadis is how most christians (of all brands) imagine the early history of christianity.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skdrflc8v9e.
but how close to real-life experience is that modern portrayal?.
two historians from the university of queensland search for the likely truth in this overview.. http://theconversation.com/mythbusting-ancient-rome-throwing-christians-to-the-lions-67365.
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fulltimestudent
Vidiot : Hasn't some historical evidence been found recently suggesting that a lot of the "persecution" stories the early Christians told were propaganda?
That's certainly the contention of the two scholars in the above attached argument. They are not alone in their viewpoint. But I know of no 'historical evidence' as mentioned in your post. Rather the viewpoint is inferred from the extant Imperial records.
I drew attention because as JWs we knew we may have to endure - or worse, see our kids tortured in front of us. Of course, the JWs are not alone in their boast of being persecuted for his name's sake, and there is something of an argument that it all harks back to second temple Judaism and the Maccabean rebellion in which some Maccabean supporters became 'martyrs.'
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How consistently were Christians persecuted in the first 200 years of church history?
by fulltimestudent inthis scene from quo vadis is how most christians (of all brands) imagine the early history of christianity.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skdrflc8v9e.
but how close to real-life experience is that modern portrayal?.
two historians from the university of queensland search for the likely truth in this overview.. http://theconversation.com/mythbusting-ancient-rome-throwing-christians-to-the-lions-67365.
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fulltimestudent
This scene from Quo Vadis is how most Christians (of all brands) imagine the early history of Christianity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkDrflc8v9E
But how close to real-life experience is that modern portrayal?
Two historians from the University of Queensland search for the likely truth in this overview.
http://theconversation.com/mythbusting-ancient-rome-throwing-christians-to-the-lions-67365
Their conclusion. Yes, firstly, some early Christians died that way, but so did lots of non-Christians.
Secondly, dislike of Christians was not Imperial policy. At least, not until the last few decades before Constantine's ascension to supremacy, and then only because they were seen as disloyal to the state ,
