I'm fully aware that this is a cult, and I was waiting for the social elements to kick in. So far, I have just been doing the "Bible study," discussing doctrine, etc. However, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities. Can those of you more experienced with this group tell me what this means and what to look out for?
InterestedOne
JoinedPosts by InterestedOne
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Elder wants to do "other activities" with me
by InterestedOne ini'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.
so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.
however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.
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Why are they afraid?
by Retrovirus inhi, i was just reading the.
flow chart - how to have a rational discussion thread, and my first thought was that the "you cheated" box was too confrontational for someone not used to logic.
then i realised that in all my discussions with my jw ladies, i'd been tiptoeing around my points for fear of scaring them off.
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InterestedOne
Other doctrines are a touchy subject with them. I didn't necessarily mean you should try to get them onto another doctrine. That could get ugly. I just meant that, in their own time, when they bring up their typical criticisms of other doctrines, they at some point appeal to logic. When they do that, let them know you would like to apply logic consistently in future discussions. Let them know you are not attacking them (they have a persecution complex), but that you want to be consistent.
This is no guarantee though. My JW "study" conductor has agreed to my request to remain logical. However, he is devious about it. He resorts to a lot of splitting hairs and double-meanings of words. It can get frustrating. When he does that, I usually give up and just let him continue. I figure we might as well move along to the next chapter. Like you said, you're scattering clues. They won't admit any flaws in the moment and are very stubborn. Like Outlaw said, they are talking -at- you.
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We all die, so why bother with Jehovah if the worst is annihilation?
by InterestedOne ini was wondering what a jw could say to a person who doesn't care about "serving jehovah.
" the person could ask, "so what if i don't serve jehovah?
" if i understand jw belief correctly, they will say, "then you'll cease to exist.
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InterestedOne
Thank you tenyearsafter. I'm still learning about JW's, so I am just trying to clarify my understanding of their outlook & what motivates them. When I posted the question, it was occurring to me that they don't seem to have any kind of scary threat for not serving Jehovah. I was wondering if I was missing something, like is there some kind of motivating threat in their doctrine that I don't know about.
I do think what dgp started to present was interesting - that to some people the idea of ceasing to exist is upsetting and seems like a punishment. I don't see what the big deal would be about ceasing to exist, but that's me.
From what I am reading here, it seems like their main threat is creating a "hell on earth" for those who don't serve Jehovah by cutting them off. I definitely feel it from my JW friend. I want to have some kind of friendship with her, but I can feel the wall she puts up which definitely hurts.
Is that it though? No real punishment after death if you do "wrong" (as defined by Jehovah)?
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hall morgage paid Elders please comment
by TheLoveDoctor inelders please comment, when our hall was paid for and its a double hall the brothers at first wanted to wait a few months to inform the cong.
thats wrong since we paid for it and should know all of the finacials.
also the publisher rate was lower very little so that we contiue as if we have a morgage.
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InterestedOne
So you divide the runing costs by the total amount of publishers using the hall and come up with a publisher rate of $2.50 per peblisher per month.
Ok. I see, yeah I have heard announcements of that nature where the secretary gives the total monthly operating expenses along with the number of publishers. He then does the math and gives suggestions like, "Our monthly expenses are $2000 and we have 80 publishers. Therefore, if each person gave $25/month, we would meet our monthly expenses & wouldn't have to turn the lights off." I guess that's the "publisher rate."
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hall morgage paid Elders please comment
by TheLoveDoctor inelders please comment, when our hall was paid for and its a double hall the brothers at first wanted to wait a few months to inform the cong.
thats wrong since we paid for it and should know all of the finacials.
also the publisher rate was lower very little so that we contiue as if we have a morgage.
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InterestedOne
Yeah, what do you mean by "publisher rate?"
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Awake magazine 1973 The Dangers of playing Chess!! Why it's Evil.
by Witness 007 inawake 1973 3/22 p.12 "...the spirit of competion between players can lead to unplesant circumstances...most families manage to keep the conflicts that arise in games to the chess board.
but in some homes tensions linger long after checkmate.
chess has been a game of war since it originated...a play substitute for the art of war....a danger of stirring up competition with one another even developing hostility towards another, something the bible warns christians to avoid doing...what effect does chess have upon one?
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InterestedOne
What about checkers? I'm serious. The principle they apply to chess could apply to any game that involves problem-solving and strategy to achieve a goal. Do they still feel this way about chess, or have they received new light on it?
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Do You Folks Wanna Hear My Story?
by Farkel ini've already written "my story".
i've been "out" for 35 years.
but that is not a story that contains the little stuff.
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InterestedOne
Since I'm new, I'd like to read what you wrote 13 years ago. Can you post a link to that thread?
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Why are they afraid?
by Retrovirus inhi, i was just reading the.
flow chart - how to have a rational discussion thread, and my first thought was that the "you cheated" box was too confrontational for someone not used to logic.
then i realised that in all my discussions with my jw ladies, i'd been tiptoeing around my points for fear of scaring them off.
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InterestedOne
I've only been looking at this org for about 8 months in attempt to understand my JW friend's point of view, so I'm no expert, but I agree that they are taught to be afraid. They are suspicious of what you might say because, as it says in Genesis, the serpent was crafty. If you say something that disagrees with their literature, the more sensible your statements sound, the more afraid they might get because they see it as a trick from the devil. Even though they have all the reinforcement from the org and the creator of the universe, they still have fear that the devil could take advantage of their human weakness and seduce them with doubt. I have no solution for this. One possibility is to wait for the brief moments when they attempt to enter the realm of critical thinking - usually when they try to show you why someone else's doctrine is wrong. Then you have a little moment to show them their own logical problems. It doesn't last long though because they seem to slip back into the cult mentality.
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We all die, so why bother with Jehovah if the worst is annihilation?
by InterestedOne ini was wondering what a jw could say to a person who doesn't care about "serving jehovah.
" the person could ask, "so what if i don't serve jehovah?
" if i understand jw belief correctly, they will say, "then you'll cease to exist.
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InterestedOne
Atheist. Either God doesn't exist (which requires faith), he's evil for not judging and thus enabling (which would negate God's Omni-Benevelance) or he judges in accordance with that omni-benevelence.
I'm not ready to call myself an atheist just yet. I'm still working through a lot of things.
To be fair, I re-read my comment above and realized it was irrelevant. Sorry about that. I see you were speaking in a general sense when you said:
This is the unbeliever's dilemma: The moment you allow for ANY judgment of others, you must live a life of hypocrisy if you deny the reality of God's impartial judgment for yourself. If you deny the rightfulness of the judgment of others, like Madoff in our example; then you are promoting anarchy and are yourself an enabler of evil.
That is, you are saying that if a person doesn't like the idea of a God who judges, they must want anarchy, in a general sense. As soon as that person says someone else ought to be punished by God, they become a hypocrite. Sorry I misunderstood your point.
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We all die, so why bother with Jehovah if the worst is annihilation?
by InterestedOne ini was wondering what a jw could say to a person who doesn't care about "serving jehovah.
" the person could ask, "so what if i don't serve jehovah?
" if i understand jw belief correctly, they will say, "then you'll cease to exist.
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InterestedOne
If you deny the rightfulness of the judgment of others, like Madoff in our example; then you are promoting anarchy and are yourself an enabler of evil.
There is a difference between judgment for a civilized society in the here & now versus some kind of cosmic judgment after death. I think a person can accept the rightfulness of judgment of others in the here & now to live a civilized life, but still have their doubts about the existence of some kind of afterlife judgment without being a hypocrite or anarchist.