I was wondering what a JW could say to a person who doesn't care about "serving Jehovah." The person could ask, "so what if I don't serve Jehovah?" If I understand JW belief correctly, they will say, "then you'll cease to exist." The person can say, "so why bother?" I know the JW can present the positive motivation of paradise, but what if the person doesn't care about that? Is there any kind of negative motivation like, "you better serve Jehovah or else..." Or else what? You die & cease to exist? So? We all die. It seems like the JW would have nothing more to say except, "ok, have a nice day, and I won't see you in paradise," and the person can say, "ok, have a nice day, and I'm content just ceasing to exist." Is that it, or is there something else the JW can say to motivate the HH?
We all die, so why bother with Jehovah if the worst is annihilation?
by InterestedOne 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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tenyearsafter
Nope...you just captured the essence of the discussion. At least other religions can offer eternal torment as an option!
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journey-on
That's really a very logical point. When I began my fade, there was that lingering fear of the "what ifs" and of dying at Armageddon. Then one day it occurred to me that I would actually rather be dead than live an eternity with a whole world full of Jehovah's Witnesses.
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cyberjesus
exactly now live and let live cuz I have few years left.
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dgp
The religious mind cannot possibly comprehend the notion that one person might actually want to cease to exist. Accepting that as a valid option would mean that all their toilings can be considered nonsense. This is one question they are not ready to answer, whatever the persuasion.
The last time I spoke to a couple of elderly female Jehovah's witnesses, I told them a variation of your post. I told them that I knew exactly what they believed but that I didn't believe it was true. They were quick to tell me that this was the time for me to listen, that I would be killed at Armageddon (of course they were not that blunt about it), and, finally, that they had warned me. I actually told them "Yes, mesdames, you have warned me".
If you come to think of it, your post, Interested One, makes Jehovah look ridiculous. If Jehovah knows most people won't pay attention anyways, why warn them? Why make His faithful servants jump through hoops and make them knock so many doors for the benefit of their salvation, which He already knows is futile?
So many worldlies have died and ceased to exist. Yet he will resurrect them, in the understanding that most will not pay attention anyways, and then he will destroy them again. Why would an omniscient God bother?
And, there's more. Argentine writer Jose Luis Borges made a short story about a land where people lay all day, absolutely motionless. One of the people actually had a bird nesting on his chest, and he was so motionless (more so than Martin Luther, because Luther at least "stood") that the main character asks him what they are doing. Well, it turns out all those people are immortal, and therefore they have had enough time to try nearly everything. Everything has become boring after so many years of doing it over and over again. They don't yet know what it feels like to lie on the ground for one thousand years, so they were trying that. The one with the bird didn't know what it felt like to have a bird nesting on his chest, so he was trying that, too. But life was hopeless. It was devoid of novelty, and they couldn't even die. I remember that once I mentioned this to an evangelical preacher and he couldn't give me a reply, either.
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Perry
Yes .... that's it. Jehovah's Witness worldview concerning the after life is identical to atheists, secularists and most pagan religions: NO JUDGMENT OF SIN
The devil told Eve that she would not die, and now he is telling the world through various means that you will not be judged after death.
....it is appointed unto man once to die, then judgment - Hebrews
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dgp
I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, Perry, but it seems to me that you've missed the point. We don't care if judgment comes. We know we are supposed to be annihilated. We are repeatedly told that by people who have, er, vested interests in making us believe so. Or, do you think the Governing Body does not derive its power from the belief that, Oh My Gosh, Armageddon is coming? Or the Pope? Or any preacher? We just refuse to toe their line. If there was a fair God, and there was judgment, I think a reasonable God would agree that his servants (of which we have to think many are simply playing Satan's game) were not easy to believe for the discerning mind, and He failed to provide sound evidence of his existence. How about actually appearing in Jerusalem in broad daylight and being recognized by everyone there?
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Perry
So are you saying that you believe a good God should not judge evil? Wouldn't that make him evil since he has the means but refuses to do so?
How about actually appearing in Jerusalem in broad daylight and being recognized by everyone there?
That's exactly what he did. But how would a person know him if he appeared as one of us?
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from hence forth ye ... have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, shew us the Father? - John 14 7-9 KJV
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dgp
Yes, that's what I'm saying. A good God would simply forgive. I don't understand who the atonement was paid to, since we are to assume it redeemed us. But if the good guy sent his son to redeem us, why can't he just give up judgment? Shall we presume that there is something greater than himself, that makes scapegoats, Jesus sacrifice, and judgment inevitable? Can't he just forgive?
I wonder why God would appear in Jerusalem but would make it a point of people NOT recognizing him. "Hello, Pilates: Do you remember me?" "Herod, you stinking bastard!" "Caiaphas"
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dgp
And, Perry, you keep missing the point.