Moshe - Here's a general question that popped in my mind after reading your comment. Where do they learn to get so devious? My study conductor displayed exactly what you are describing, and my JW friend does it as well. I thought maybe they might learn it from the TMS/Service meeting, but so far as I have been sitting in on these meetings, the "training" presented from the platform is more dumbed down. Although I do see the tactic of equivocation being taught for their doorstep pitch, I haven't seen some of the deeper dynamic stuff being taught that I've experienced one-on-one with my conductor. It's like he took a course in how to be a salesman. I've been wondering where he/they get it.
InterestedOne
JoinedPosts by InterestedOne
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My Study Conductor Jumped Ship - Any Possible Explanations?
by InterestedOne inmy study conductor has informed me that he & his wife are switching to a foreign language congregation that is far away from the territory they live in (it will involve a lot of driving back & forth).
because he is switching congregations, he said he will not have the energy to devote to my study and recommended another brother who could take over, and i have met him.
however, this change happened simultaneously with a decision i have made.
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1909 Watchtower Article on Acts 15:28,29
by pirata ini was suprised to find that the 1909 watchtower had an understanding of the blood ruling that meshes more coherently with the circumstances (galatians 1,2; acts 21:20-32) surrounding that decision.
it acknowledges that these were not binding laws, but rather were made with a preservation of peace between hebrew and gentile christians.
it draws the parallel between blood and meat sacrificed to idols (1 corinthians 8).
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InterestedOne
Thank you pirata. The WT analysis in that article reminds me of other commentaries I have seen. Are Jewish people today offended by blood transfusions? If not, then why should gentiles today have any issue with them? Issue, that is, on religious grounds, apart from non-religious reasons such as risk of infection, etc.
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Downfall, the collapse of Hitler and of the GB.
by the max inthe german film starring bruno ganz as hitler, charts hitlers descent into madness and paranoia, as he looses touch with reallity at the end of ww2,surrounded in the furher bunker in berlin, (bethel) a maniac loosing touch with reallity, gives orders and edicts, that evreyone ignores,(they all recognise he has , gone mad, yet no one dare aknowledge it through fear) the only way to find out the truth about what is really happening in germany, is to listen to the allied radio broadcasts(in our day the intrernet) hitler and nazis warned that anyone caught listening to these radio stations should be executed immeadiatley, gb are nazis, and at one time i would have defended them to the point of death, why are they scared of scrutiny ?
the internet ?
if they (we) for some of us have the truth, what is there to be affraid off ?.
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InterestedOne
Here's one thing that confuses me though. The internet has been around for a while. My JW friend converted in 2003. She was internet saavy at the time, and the internet was alive & kicking even then. Somehow, even with the availability of information, she was persuaded. Now, she refuses to have the internet in her home, and refuses to view anything that might be construed as "apostate" or "opposing" because she has bought the WT line that all such things are "propaganda." How could that have still happened even with so much information readily available? Is her case just a fluke? To me, it shows that although the abundance of information on the internet is helpful, something else is at work in the conversion process. I hope my friend's case is just a fluke in the developed world. It would be interesting to see a numerical study that indicates a correlation with access to information and a drop in WT numbers.
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The big bad "worldly" person
by roxanesophia inconsidering this looks to be mostly a ex-jw site, you're probably thinking "coming into it?
run.
" but i have friends in it who have persuaded me to have a bible study and attend meetings, and well, hey... it isn't doing me much harm.
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InterestedOne
If your conductor was your friend before you started studying the JW's, do you feel comfortable sharing with her your true feelings and the research you have done, the way normal friends would?
I want to tell you something about the "Jehovah is testing you" thing where they set you up between two possible choices: them or the world. I was put in a similar position when I was in college, but it was not with JW's. It was with the "born-againers." They kept hitting me with the question of whether or not I had accepted it, over and over again. Finally I was so exhausted, and one particularly persuasive believer kept saying "why not?" "why not accept it?" Finally I gave in and "accepted" it. They gave me a little party, and I became one of them. That was when I was 20, and I am now in my late thirties. I have only recently begun to undo the damage I did by "accepting" it. When you take a plunge like that, it can put a grip on your mind where you start rationalizing all sorts of things, and you become a little bit insane. It makes me want to cry the way these kinds of people manipulate with "friendship" and emotion and "reasoning" or just about anything else they can use to lead you to "accept" and become one of them.
The funny thing is I too have a friend/acquaintance who is a JW, and that is one of the reasons I am learning about JW's & even doing a "study" with them. I am learning their particular form of manipulation that is very similar to what I experienced in college. I hope you will not make the same mistake I did.
I too agree with keyser soze. I actually think the literature itself is harmful. It is not educational but fools people into thinking it is. I recommend educating yourself with something more credible. Develop your critical reading/thinking skills.
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did freddy practice auto writing
by jeckle ini wonder who he was divining?
if i walked up to the average nonjw and said hi i'm anointed and i'm going to heaven and your not and got reveal biblical understanding to me and me alone or me and my select few .
wouldn't they throw a straight jacket on me straight away?
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InterestedOne
I hear what you're saying. If I came up to you and said my group and I are fulfilling Bible prophecy, and therefore you need to do what we say, you would call me crazy. However, I think I can hear what my JW friend would say. She would say the WT leaders like Freddy simply recognized that they were the only ones following the Bible in their time. Couple that with their time calculations for what they considered Bible prophecy, and they were basically saying "if the shoe fits, wear it." So they went with it and publicly made their various claims about being God's only organization in this time, etc. From the outside, it looks like a self-centered interpretation of the Bible and current events. I wonder if there is a term in psychology for that kind of phenomenon, like I vaguely remember a study that showed most people think they are smarter and better looking than average.
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My Study Conductor Jumped Ship - Any Possible Explanations?
by InterestedOne inmy study conductor has informed me that he & his wife are switching to a foreign language congregation that is far away from the territory they live in (it will involve a lot of driving back & forth).
because he is switching congregations, he said he will not have the energy to devote to my study and recommended another brother who could take over, and i have met him.
however, this change happened simultaneously with a decision i have made.
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InterestedOne
Yes GOrwell, as the Bible Teach book says on page 7, "Millions have enjoyed using the question-and-answer method when discussing the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses. We hope you will too." I tried, but I didn't enjoy being personally attacked when my answer didn't match theirs.
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What it is like talking to a JW
by kurtbethel ini found a good illustration of what a conversation with a jw is like.
there is a political point made in this, but that is not the point i am making here.
this disconnect with what is said and what is heard is exactly what i experienced during my study.
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InterestedOne
Yes. Just plug "apostate" or "worldly" in for "liberal." Regarding the question you raised, one factor in the mushiness could be a steady diet of the literature. I feel my brain turning to mush when I read it.
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My Study Conductor Jumped Ship - Any Possible Explanations?
by InterestedOne inmy study conductor has informed me that he & his wife are switching to a foreign language congregation that is far away from the territory they live in (it will involve a lot of driving back & forth).
because he is switching congregations, he said he will not have the energy to devote to my study and recommended another brother who could take over, and i have met him.
however, this change happened simultaneously with a decision i have made.
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InterestedOne
kurtbethel - Your experience sounds just like mine. Their resorting to personal attacks would drive me nuts inside, but I usually contained myself.
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Is "Lying for the Truth" a real expression among JW's or just something apostates or worldlies made up?
by InterestedOne inalthough i've read some of the "theocratic war strategy" articles, etc., i have heard some on here use the expression "lying for the truth.
" is that an expression jw's say among themselves?
also, does it appear in an article anywhere?.
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InterestedOne
MS - I forgot about the avoidance tactics they use first. In addition to the ones you mentioned, here is a big one: I found that they will ask, "why are you asking that?" rather than simply answer. The question you suggested is well-phrased and interesting, and I will consider asking it if the right moment occurs. However, I have found that with hypotheticals they avoid by saying "that's hypothetical and I can't answer that kind of question because I would need to know all the details of a real situation."
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Is "Lying for the Truth" a real expression among JW's or just something apostates or worldlies made up?
by InterestedOne inalthough i've read some of the "theocratic war strategy" articles, etc., i have heard some on here use the expression "lying for the truth.
" is that an expression jw's say among themselves?
also, does it appear in an article anywhere?.
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InterestedOne
TTWSYF - Yeah, that is a good point that their literature displays "lying for the truth" with all of their misquotations, etc. Do you have any thoughts on my question to Black Sheep about personal interaction with them? I thought he made an interesting point that all he has to do is talk to them for 5 minutes, and they will do it. I would like to experience this in real-time with one, and was wondering what I might say to them that would make them start lying.