Posts by InterestedOne

115

How should I respond to a JW friend? (Australia)

by summerinvincible in

jw
friends

sorry if this isn't the right place to post this - brand new member here.. i recently caught up with an old friend who is a jw.

she's been witnessing to me, and i've accepted all her handouts because i don't want to hurt her feelings.

but now she's asking me for my "thoughts" about what i've read so far.

InterestedOne

Hi summerinvincible - I'm still with you too and wondering what happened. I'm also glad the two of you are still talking. This reminds me of what would happen with my JW friend. She would conveniently let our conversations fade without being resolved.

59

How important are God and Jesus to you?

by Nickolas in

i ask this question because it goes to:.

- how disposed to objectively considering contrarian evidence you are, and.

- how much i might be messing with your life and happiness by helping you see things the way i do.. i read the posts of many people on this board who are apparently happy, even deliriously happy, with their theism.

InterestedOne

Regarding atheists wasting their time. They did not waste their time with me. One of the things that kickstarted my doubts was listening to something I think was called "the atheist tapes." Maybe I was a more open-minded born-againer. I actually dated an atheist girl while I was still a believer. She let me borrow the tape. I listened to it, and it put a bug in my ear.

My life didn't implode when I started rejecting my former beliefs. You hit on a significant factor in your question: how important were God and Jesus to me? During my time (15 years) believing in God and Jesus, I think somewhere deep down I knew all along that they were just ideas that I was supposed to believe in, but as ideas they were not really all that important. The ideas went with the territory of the cult I was getting caught up in. The people in the cult got excited when I showed interest in their ideas, and I allowed their excitement to transfer to myself. Deep down, I don't think the real me was all that excited about the ideas even though I experienced the various "heartwarming" and fuzzy feelings that I attributed to the "Holy Spirit." I think I was a typical victim of a group mixing emotion, faulty thinking, and social pressure to bring an "interested one" into their clique.

Related to one's life imploding, here is something interesting I am experiencing. Now that I no longer believe in God and Jesus, I think my sense of morality is underdeveloped by about 15 years (the amount of time I spent as a believer). As I have heard atheists point out, if you spend your life behaving morally out of fear of God, you may not be truly becoming a moral person. I need to check myself. However, I would not have it any other way. I am actually -excited- to develop a true moral personality. I think it is part of growing up. Unfortunately, I think my religious beliefs stunted my moral development because here I am at 38 years old talking about "growing up."

Regarding what would happen to your wife if she started rejecting her beliefs, I wonder if you can find out how important the ideas of God and Jesus, etc. are to her. Maybe deep down it's the same with her as it was with me. I don't know how you would acquire that information though.

1

Flat Earth Society

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

in another thread, wontleave wrote:.

jws are the modern equivalent of the flat earth society.

it looks like the flat earth society still exists.

InterestedOne

In another thread, WontLeave wrote:

JWs are the modern equivalent of the Flat Earth Society

It looks like the Flat Earth Society still exists. See

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

In what ways are JW's similar to the Flat Earth Society?

53

I have a confession to make....

by Broken Promises in

jw
friends

.

...that if i'm interested in someone, i read through their posting history to see what kind of people they are.. .

there.

InterestedOne

I'm not sure why one would need to confess to that as if there is something wrong with it. I think it helps to get an idea of who you are interacting with to look at their posting history. Isn't that one of the reasons for even having the section "topics posted on?"

27

Pentecostal Madness: Panties, Wife swapping, aggression and epylepsy

by Wonderment in

though i have never been a pentecostal, i remember well the frequent stories i heard of this religious movement while going from house-to-house in the past.

i wonder if you guys heard similar stories.

one story i heard a few times was about the confession of some males going to pentecostal churches to peek at girls throwing themselves all over the floor in epileptic movements, and some mention the word "panties" being exposed as an attraction to them.

InterestedOne

I went to a charismatic church for a while, and they had "modesty cloths." When a woman would fall down, someone would put a "modesty cloth" over her groin area.

19

Df'd and Meetings

by IMHO in

jw
friends

why the set procedures for ones that are df'd when attending meetings?.

(i think i know the answer to this but i look forward to your thoughts first).

InterestedOne

If they don't leave immediately, what happens? Does an elder come up and ask them to leave?

122

Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou in

it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.

" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.

the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .

InterestedOne

cannot creation be a valid theory?

I suggest clarifying terms such as "hypothesis" and "theory." Also, consider the illustration of skyhooks vs. cranes as illustrated by people like Dawkins. Google Dawkins skyhook.

15

Is It Normal for a JW to give a Return Visit print-outs of information?

by Broken Promises in

yesterday i had another visit from a jw who has started calling on me after a few discussions.

i wrote about her in a previous thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/209531/1/jw-at-my-door-admits-that-shee28099s-had-doubts i'm pretending to be an interested one, and we've had some nice discussions.

i am trying to get her to research her religion via "innocent" questions i bring up.. i've noticed that each time she calls on me, she's given me printed information.

InterestedOne

BP - As a contribution to your thoughts on how to be careful in your approach, here is one of my gut feelings, and it goes against all my normal tendencies, having spent time in academia. Normally, to avoid plagiarism, if I'm having a dialogue with someone and I am presenting an argument that is not mine, I give credit where credit is due - that is, I explain that in my research, I found so-and-so makes this interesting argument, and I agree with his/her reasoning. To my dismay, I found that the JW's I interacted with would become defensive and shut down when they realized the ideas of other people were being brought into the discussion. They had this superficial notion of what it means to "reach the heart" and felt that bringing in others' ideas was taking away from the process. They would say, "that's great that so-and-so thinks such-and-such, but what do -you- think, InterestedOne?" If I said I agree with so-and-so, they would take it personally and say, "well then why don't you go and be taught by so-and-so? We thought you were interested in what -we- believe." I found their style to be really twisted, and they didn't seem to understand what it means to have a dialogue.

Therefore, as distasteful as it is, I suggest, as much as possible, presenting the arguments you find as if they are your own thoughts to avoid triggering their fear of the "reasoning of men." The only time to mention outside sources is to document a specific fact. JW's seem to be ok with documented facts, but they have a problem with the -reasoning- of others. It is screwy and goes against academic honesty, but JW's have made up their own rules.

Edit: One difficulty is when a scholar makes a great point and you find yourself saying, "I couldn't have said it better myself," and you just want to share it with the person with whom you are discussing the topic. It's tough to interact with people who won't listen to others' ideas.

42

Would you pose as an "interested one" and "study" to help free my family?

by Essan in

...in return for someone else doing the same with your friends or family?.

this is a hypothetical question to see how many would be interested in something like this and if it could work.

(i created another thread about this but the title and op wasn't clear enough.

InterestedOne

The scenario Essan described is what I tried. It is certainly natural to want to know the history, etc. Of course I messed up a lot because I was bumbling around not knowing enough about how JW's interact and not always having my facts straight, and I think I would be better equipped now. Still, what I found was that even though we would discuss my questions about the history, the JW would keep trying to get in my head and heart about how I was "progressing" with other aspects of "what I was learning." It took a lot of inner strength to keep reminding myself and trying to remind him that I had never committed to anything beyond simply learning -about- JW's. He was always subtly trying to get into my heart to find out if I was worth bothering with. After all, that is what they are trained to do. I think it might be good to offer tips for how to handle the way JW's dig into you. My response to those probing questions was usually something like, "I'm still taking it all in," or "I'm still thinking about it." At one point though, a JW said to me, "You can't go on like this forever. At some point you have to make a decision." I had to contain my annoyance that someone would start telling me what to do like that, but I just asked him to please bear with me.

15

Is It Normal for a JW to give a Return Visit print-outs of information?

by Broken Promises in

yesterday i had another visit from a jw who has started calling on me after a few discussions.

i wrote about her in a previous thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/209531/1/jw-at-my-door-admits-that-shee28099s-had-doubts i'm pretending to be an interested one, and we've had some nice discussions.

i am trying to get her to research her religion via "innocent" questions i bring up.. i've noticed that each time she calls on me, she's given me printed information.

InterestedOne

BP - I've just come off spending almost a year as an "interested one" studying with a perfect example of a modern-day JW, complete with iphone, computer, etc. When I would ask him questions, he would give me either printouts or email me .pdf's he had created. All of the text in the printouts and .pdf's was stuff he had pulled from the CD-ROM (often excerpts from "Reasoning from the Scriptures" or "Insight on the Scriptures") and compiled to respond to my question. He was not doing outside research.

This fooled me at first, and I thought we were having a dialogue. So, I would send him things I had found, like what you are considering doing. This was a mistake but also very revealing. It was a mistake because it started to cause a rift in our communication because he interpreted my reading and sending him critical information as an indication that maybe I wasn't really "interested." It caused him to shift the focus from the actual topic over to my motives. The fact that he would shift the discussion to my motives was revealing in itself, but what was also revealing was that sometimes he would bluntly tell me he did -not- read what I sent him. That was a real eye-opener for me because I have never -refused- to read something a person sends me unless I don't have time. It was my first encounter with a person who deliberately shields himself from certain information, and I was totally thrown by it.

From this experience, I think it is good to follow Black Sheep's advice. See one example of his advice here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/190996/1/Why-did-my-old-friend-do-this-to-our-friendship-Please-help-me-understand