Posts by InterestedOne

56

"It's Ok to Lie"

by Azazel in

my turn on the soapbox.. .

well friends ive just gotton home from the special edition meeting, care of the enthusiastic circus overseer and what a great moral lesson his talk was tonight.. .

do you want to be a guest in god's tent?.

InterestedOne

Here are some relatively recent (within the past decade) WT excerpts related to this topic.

From Come Be My Follower:

Jesus' illustrations, then, revealed truth to those whose hearts hungered for it; at the same time, his illustrations concealed truth from those with proud hearts. . . . As followers of Christ, we want to imitate his way of teaching, including his use of illustrations. (Come Be My Follower pp 119-120)

From WT 2/1/2007 article Why Be Truthful?

. . . . Moreover, we need to consider whether the person asking for information is entitled to a comprehensive answer. . . . What example did Jesus Christ set in this regard? On one occasion, Jesus was conversing with some unbelievers who showed interest in his travel plans. "Pass on over from here and go into Judea," they advised him. What was Jesus' reply? "You go up to the festival [in Jerusalem]; I am not yet going up to this festival, because my due time has not yet fully come." Shortly thereafter, Jesus did travel to Jerusalem for the festival. Why did he answer that way? They were not entitled to know the exact details of his whereabouts. So while Jesus did not utter an untruth, he gave them an incomplete answer in order to limit the possible harm they could do to him or to his followers. . . . (WT 2/1/2007 p. 6)

From WT 11/15/2004 article The Tent of the Upright Ones Will Flourish

The faithful witness does not commit perjury when testifying. His testimony is not tainted with lies. However, this does not mean that he is under obligation to give full information to those who may want to bring harm to Jehovah's people in some way. The patriarchs Abraham and Isaac withheld facts from some who did not worship Jehovah. (Genesis 12:10-19; 20:1-18; 26:1-10) Rahab of Jericho misdirected the king's men. (Joshua 2:1-7) Jesus Christ himself refrained from divulging total information when doing so would have caused needless harm. (John 7:1-10) He said: "Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine." Why not? So that "they may never . . . turn and rip you open." -- Matthew 7:6. (WT 11/15/2004 p.28)

56

"It's Ok to Lie"

by Azazel in

my turn on the soapbox.. .

well friends ive just gotton home from the special edition meeting, care of the enthusiastic circus overseer and what a great moral lesson his talk was tonight.. .

do you want to be a guest in god's tent?.

It's not new, but I think it's interesting to see it presented at the meeting. If you look up the word "lie" in Insight on the Scriptures, you will see the same wording. The WT has their own way of defining what a lie is. Here are some excerpts from their definition:

Lie. The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person. . . . While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. Jesus Christ counseled: "Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open." (Mt 7:6) That is why Jesus on certain occasions refrained from giving full information or direct answers to certain questions when doing so could have brought unnecessary harm. (Mt 15:1-6; 21:23-27; Joh 7:3-10) Evidently, the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshippers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light. (Insight on the Scriptures Vol. 2 pp 244-245)

21

Journal of Philosophical Psychology cites JWs as an example of a self-validating belief system

by slimboyfat in

a recent article in the journal of philosophical psychology titled: 'how convenient!

the epistemic rationale of self-validating belief systems' by maarten boudry says that one of the defense mechanisms of self-validating belief systems is "multiple endpoints and moving targets" and cites jws to illustrate the point.

here are the sections that discuss jws:.

InterestedOne

For example, when their prediction of the Second Coming of Christ in 1873–1874 failed to come true, Jehovah's Witnesses argued that Christ had returned as predicted, but as an invisible spirit being (Zygmunt, 1970 , p. 931).

Is the author incorrect to say that the JW's predicted the Second Coming of Christ in 1873-1874, since the Adventists made the prediction, not the JW's (who did not exist as a group with that name at the time)? Did Russell actually believe/participate in the prediction prior to 1873-1874, or did he just participate in the reinterpretation afterward?

15

I think we have it backwards

by lrkr in

jw
friends

you know how when people come out of being a jw they say things like- but the bible is a good book- its just the religion that is bad.

or when describing muslim extremists commit some atrocity, people say- the religion is bad- but the koran is a good book.

or when you observe orthodox jews abusing members of their family- it is said- its the religion that is confining and doent allow leaders to be held accoutable- but the torah is a good book.. i think we have it backwards!!

InterestedOne

Yeah, imagine if someone today said, "I do not permit a woman to teach a man."

21

Feeling down.... BIG time

by Free!! in

jw
friends

i know i don't post here often.... i just lurk around and read most of the threads daily (from my phone)....but today is one of those days that i just feel like "blah"... i dont care about anything, i realize i dont have anything, all my friends are busy or with their own set of problems... and i just dont want to bother then.. it sucks..... i just need to vent, let everything out... i really want to scream, but i cant... i wish i could run away from everything and just start fresh, i feel like a failure and i just dont like me at all....i was so down a few days ago i was thinking about going back to the hall, because i feel so lonely... but i refused to let my depression make me do something so silly... .

thanks for even looking at this thread... i just need it to vent or i am going to explode.... :(.

InterestedOne

Have a look at this (not religious). It cheers me up:

http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

15

I think we have it backwards

by lrkr in

jw
friends

you know how when people come out of being a jw they say things like- but the bible is a good book- its just the religion that is bad.

or when describing muslim extremists commit some atrocity, people say- the religion is bad- but the koran is a good book.

or when you observe orthodox jews abusing members of their family- it is said- its the religion that is confining and doent allow leaders to be held accoutable- but the torah is a good book.. i think we have it backwards!!

InterestedOne

I agree. I recall a poster here, designs, saying "look at the source material."

81

New Member

by Twisty in

jw
friends

hi.

my wife and myself are active witnesses.. before i go into great depth about our past and what brings me here, i would like to make sure i am posting this in the right section.. i'm a little technologically retarded so please bear with me.. .

twisty.

InterestedOne

I think Mrs. Twisty handled it well. All you can do is thank them for thinking of you and assure them that you are fine. Thanks for the update. I wonder how far they will push. If they push too far, remember you have the right to politely ask them to respect your privacy.

24

Need help showing a family member the real truth behind the Society

by screwface in

hey everybody im pretty new on this site, but i need help.i just got into a 30 minute debate about religion, jehovah's witnesses mostly.

now i was in the trooth for 20 years, but ive been dissed twice.

the last time i was dissed for five years.

InterestedOne

i need to know how to show them scriptually that their in a false religion

I don't know if that is possible because of the various ways people interpret the scriptures. Personally, I have taken a step back, before assuming the scriptures to be true, and decided to consider what is true and false in general. I think all religions and their associated scriptures contain some falsehood, so I don't see why one should bother attempting to show that one conforms more or less to scriptures. Even if the JW's conform most closely to the scriptures (although I am not convinced they do), they are not necessarily conforming to something that is true. I wonder what would happen if you discussed with them how they go about determining what is true and false.

55

Im a mormon

by deservingone26 in

jw
friends

im a mormon now and have been one for the last 3 months.

at first i really liked it but now i am starting to have 2nd thoughts, i grew up as a jehovahs witness and was disfellowshiped at 19 i really started to look for a new church in july of this year.

i started out in a christian church which i really liked but i didnt understand the jesus as god thing/trinity.

InterestedOne

what is this feeling that i am getting?

Back when I believed Christianity (of the born-again, slightly charismatic type), I would get an amazing feeling in my chest. I figured it was something special about the Christian religion and that I was experiencing the Holy Spirit. Then I read a poem by Yeats that had nothing to do with Christianity and got the same feeling. I don't think Mormons have a monopoly on those feelings. I think it's part of being human. Perhaps it's the same sort of thing as getting chills upon hearing an amazing piece of music or a great speech.

Don't let cultic groups hijack things that are simply part of our humanity, whether it's hugs, warmth, love, music, or good feelings in the heart.

64

Starting to read Crisis of Conscience....

by confuzzled777 in

jw
friends

after almost 2 years of being wrongfully disfellowshipped and over a year after finding this site....i am starting to read crisis of conscience.

i will not lie....i am a bit nervous as to what information i will find in the book.

i have a strong feeling that i will end up crying through most of it as i will start to see the truth about the "truth".

InterestedOne

The pdf version is available from the publisher here. As for the printed version, they have a note on their homepage about it.