Posts by InterestedOne

233

A reason why most religious theological teachings are sociologically dangerous and damaging

by thetrueone in

just caught this short video of christopher hitchens in a debate involving religious theology and i thought.

how close it came to the jw theology and its own inherent sociological and psychological damage that it causes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ygqfr3sem&feature=related.

InterestedOne

ziddina wrote:

Her level of blindness to the falseness of her highly specious "reasoning" - more accurately, excuses and revisionism - was positively astounding to behold. . . .

Hence the macabre fascination.

Thank you for expressing in words some of my feelings. When I recently emailed my JW acquaintance some questions/comments about JW-ism, she simply responded asking (in all caps) "WHY DO YOU CARE?" That got me thinking, and I was unable to answer. Your description captures some of the answer. I too have a fascination with the mental phenomenon I see in my JW acquaintance as well as in Tec's posts and find it, as you said, "astounding to behold" in a macabre way.

I can only take it in small doses though. When I attended the KH, it was too much of this phenomenon all at once, and I literally could not stomach it. I would become physically sick to my stomach by the end of the meetings, like after being on an amusement park ride & had to just sit in my vehicle in the parking lot for a while before the vertigo subsided enough to drive home.

89

Emblem stupidity, and the bizarre dance of the confused memorial-taker

by cedars in

jw
friends

well, i went along to the memorial with mrs cedars.

it was my first since my "awakening" just less than a year ago.

apparently i made a lot of people happy by being there (even if it was only building up false hopes), the most important of which were my family.

InterestedOne

james_woods wrote:

Just as a side question - is the word "Emblems" used in this context an exclusively JWism? Or, do other religions call the bread and the wine this?

When I spent time among various evangelical protestant sects, they would refer to the bread and wine as the "elements," not the "emblems." I have a feeling this is another JW-ism that sounds sort of protestant but is slightly tweaked to differentiate their brand from the other guys.

30

Impact on the receiving end of "What the Bible Really Teaches"

by kepler in

several years ago my fiance had a traumatic experience and decided to return to being a jw.. .

as a result she insisted that we read "what the bible really teaches".

then later i agreed to take instruction with house visits by an elder and his associates on weekends with the same purpose.. .

InterestedOne

Question 1: You could ask the elders to provide you with the correct postal address of the Watchtower branch office in your country. Then, you could type your question(s) out on paper & mail them to the address. After a while, you may receive a response letter in the mail. The responder may attempt to answer your question(s) & provide some references to Watchtower literature, or he may just say that the Watchtower cannot realistically attempt to answer every conceivable question from every person in the world and simply decline to answer your question(s).

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that if you have a so-called "right heart condition," you will join their religion even if you have unanswered questions about it. To them, if you have a so-called right heart condition, you will wait on Jehovah with your unanswered questions and in the meantime join their religion, which they believe is analogous to getting into Noah's ark to escape a catastrophe (similar to the biblical flood, but this time it's the war of armageddon) that will happen any day now. They are a doomsday cult and are not interested in scholarship. Any impression of scholarship conveyed by their literature is just that - an impression they create to attract people to join.

30

Do the R&F really know where the WT came from?

by tornapart in

this is eye opening!

no wonder they want to keep the history of the wts a secret!!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjcijm2cquk&feature.

InterestedOne

tornapart - There is a book called The Watchtower and the Masons that you can find if you do a torrent search. Although it doesn't prove anything, I still found it interesting because of the way it lays out some of the bits of history and concepts found in the Watchtower and Masonry.

56

Has anybody gotten a copy of that super secret elder school book?

by Momma-Tossed-Me in

jw
friends

?.

InterestedOne

blond-moment - Yes the pioneer book and the OD book are other examples. On one hand they say everything in those books is in the literature. Logically one asks then why are these books kept secret? If the elder says it is to keep them from being abused, one would logically conclude that if everything in those books is in the literature, a person could abuse the literature just as well. As for the pioneer sister, if everything in the book is in the literature, there is no reason to only allow pioneers to read the book since everyone is allowed to read the literature. What possible reason could there be to not allow someone to read those books?

56

Has anybody gotten a copy of that super secret elder school book?

by Momma-Tossed-Me in

jw
friends

?.

InterestedOne

"everything that is in there is in the literature, it's not secret"

This must be a stock answer. When I asked an elder about it, he said exactly the same thing. Of course my next question was, "then why won't you let me read it?" He said, "because I can't, so please stop asking me." I felt bad for him, so I let it drop.

30

Do the R&F really know where the WT came from?

by tornapart in

this is eye opening!

no wonder they want to keep the history of the wts a secret!!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjcijm2cquk&feature.

InterestedOne

tornapart - It sounds like the WT's emotional tactics didn't work with you. I've noticed tones in the literature that remind me of abusive relationships in which an abuser attempts to make someone feel unappreciative, unloving, disloyal, a traitor, etc. for questioning the abuser's integrity. I'm glad to hear this kind of manipulation didn't take hold with you. I brought it up because you mentioned the mind control aspect of the JW experience. One reason why the R&F do not know where the WT came from is that the WT emotionally manipulates them such that they avoid doing a thorough background check.

100

CRAZINESS!!! I'M BEING 'MARKED' FOR GOING TO COLLEGE!!!

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

ohmygosh!!!

one of my friends who is a ms told me today that the elders have 'marked' me because i'm a reg.pioneer and i've decided to go to college next semester???!

he said he can't tell me anymore but to be careful---what the hell does 'mark' mean?

InterestedOne

No person should be advised to hide the fact that he/she is attending college.

100

CRAZINESS!!! I'M BEING 'MARKED' FOR GOING TO COLLEGE!!!

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

ohmygosh!!!

one of my friends who is a ms told me today that the elders have 'marked' me because i'm a reg.pioneer and i've decided to go to college next semester???!

he said he can't tell me anymore but to be careful---what the hell does 'mark' mean?

InterestedOne

Just for laughs, here is a little more about marking from the elder book:

Extreme physical uncleanness: (Deut. 23:12-14; 2 Cor. 7: 1) Every effort should be made to help the offender see the need to keep his body and place of residence physically clean. Before disfellowshipping would be considered, elders would need to be certain that the uncleanness is pronounced and offensive, bringing much reproach upon Jehovah's good name and his people in the community. Appropriate counsel should be given. If this is not heeded, then marking may be necessary. (2 Thess. 3:14) If there is blatant, willful disregard of the counsel given and extremely offensive unclean conditions contlnue, disfellowshipping may be necessary.

100

CRAZINESS!!! I'M BEING 'MARKED' FOR GOING TO COLLEGE!!!

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

ohmygosh!!!

one of my friends who is a ms told me today that the elders have 'marked' me because i'm a reg.pioneer and i've decided to go to college next semester???!

he said he can't tell me anymore but to be careful---what the hell does 'mark' mean?

InterestedOne

To answer your question about what they mean by "marked," here you go (from the elder book females are not allowed to read):

Marking Disorderly Ones
1. At times it may be necessary to mark those who display a flagrant disregard for theocratic order though not practicing a grave sin that would result in judicial action. (w99 7/15 pp. 29-31) This could include such things as being grossly lazy or critical or being a profitless talker who is a constant 'meddler with what does not concern him.' (2 Thess. 3:11) It may involve one who schemes to take material advantage of others, indulges in entertainment that is clearly improper, or dates when not legally or Scripturally free.-od p. 150-151.

2. If the disorderly conduct is generally unknown to others and poses no threat to their spiritual wellbeing, usually it is best to handle things through admonition and counsel. The elders should not be hasty in giving a warning talk. However, if the individual does not see the error of his way but continues to be an unwholesome influence, a warning talk may be given to the congregation.-2 Thess. 3:6, 14, 15; w99 7/15 pp. 29-31; w85 4/15 pp. 30-31.

• Example - mark for dating an "unbeliever": The elders should first counsel and try to help a disorderly one. If a person persists in a way that is disturbing and that has the potential for spreading, they may conclude that there would be reason for a warning talk to be given to the congregation.-2 Cor. 6:14; 2 Thess. 3:11,14; w99 7/15 p. 31.

• It may be that an individual is dating not an actual 'unbeliever' but an unbaptized publisher. In such cases a warning talk may not be needed, depending on the circumstances, on the attitude of the Christian, on the level of disturbance to the congregation, and other factors. Nonetheless, if he is dating with a view to marrying someone who is unbaptized, he is not obeying the Bible's counsel at 1 Corinthians 7:39 to marry "only in the Lord" and loving counsel should be given. Elders will use reasonableness and discernment in determining whether a particular situation is sufficiently serious and disturbing to require a warning talk. -od pp. IS0-1S1; w04 7/1 pp. 30-31.

3. If the disorderly one becomes ashamed of his ways and is moved to change, then as elders of the congregation see the adjustment, they can individually decide to end the limitation they have put on personally socializing with him. This will indicate to the congregation that he is no longer marked.