when you were a witness, were you pretty much like you are now---personality wise?
are you calmer or more agitated?
are you that much different?.
I was a strict JW following all the rules. There was no grey areas, it was all black and white following the WT. I pioneered and always felt you were either in it or you were not. I had little time for the 1 hour a month brigade. Basically I was an asshole.
My attitudes towards other people are now totally different. The funny thing is now I am atheist I am showing more of the 'fruitages of the spirit' than I ever did as a JW. (I expect I am still an asshole sometimes too, haha)
my daughter told me about last weeks service meeting part on facebook.... the brother doing the parts asked for a show of hands who had a facebook account.. apparently a number of elders did.. (she did not put up her hand...in fact recently deleted all jws off her friends because she doesnt want them to know anything about her life).
i thought that was a dirty trick to pull.. oz.
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Let's get something straight. I am Shepherd. The person claiming to be an elder and saying it was not a dirty trick is TheSheppard.
I agree with you Aussie Oz :)
my daughter told me about last weeks service meeting part on facebook.... the brother doing the parts asked for a show of hands who had a facebook account.. apparently a number of elders did.. (she did not put up her hand...in fact recently deleted all jws off her friends because she doesnt want them to know anything about her life).
i thought that was a dirty trick to pull.. oz.
.
@ex360shipper I don't believe for one moment he is a real elder.
my daughter told me about last weeks service meeting part on facebook.... the brother doing the parts asked for a show of hands who had a facebook account.. apparently a number of elders did.. (she did not put up her hand...in fact recently deleted all jws off her friends because she doesnt want them to know anything about her life).
i thought that was a dirty trick to pull.. oz.
.
@TheSheppard " Then I proceeded to tell them that due to the popularity of these sites, it was wise for the Faithful and Discreet Slave to publish some warnings and counsel in the Awake magazine. "
Excuse me???? You have the nerve to get on the platform and say that and yet you post on 'apostate' websites? Your hypocricy would be stunning, except I don't believe you are telling the truth. In your next post you write:
" That's BS. They don't want to know who your having a conversation with. It's not like they're asking everyone to turn in their list of friends, for god's sake. " - No genuine Elder/MS would be comfortable with words like bullshit or say 'for god's sake', so I think you are a troll.
my uncle was rushed to the hospital last tuesday with severe stomach pain.
(he was diagnosed with colon cancer one year ago.
the doctors, family,and my uncle decided against colon surgery.
@TheSheppard " There is nothing written in the publications that would require a disfellowshipped individual from having to leave the room"
"I sometimes look for a logical reason for someone's actions"
The logical conclusion is these elders overstepped themselves. I understand your desire to see the good in everyone's actions and this commendable, but unfortuately shunning and asking someone to leave the room for a prayer is not commendable action and it certainly is not an act of love.
My other comment is about the cousin who left the room when asked. I assume he did not want to cause a scene at the bedside of a dying person and that is admirable. The actions of the elders could have resulted in just that, and they acted shamefully. Always remember, shunning is a one way action. Once a person is difellowshipped they are not bound by this rule. A disfellowshipped person can greet anyone they like, including those elders. I find great pleasure in making such ones feel uncomfortable rather than me. However, in these circumstances I would also have left the room. Once the elders were outside the room however, I would have told them why I left, and that they were lucky I was not as unloving as they were or by now they would be seeking medical treatment for a bloody nose.
this is weird?!
i just came accross this on mr unthank's personal site: http://stevenunthank.wordpress.com/monies/i recently read something where the wts is, let's just say connected, to various institutions/companies to wield/get their way.....is this one or just coincidence?
moniespersonal message from steven unthank.
Hopefully Sizemik won't blast me with abuse if I post in this thread......
PayPal is basically a law to itself. They can cancel accounts at any time and for no reason and they can freeze the cash inside the account, but not indefinitely without a court order. Nor can PayPal refuse to have any contact with him as long as they are holding his money, although they can refer all communication to its legal department. As many online can testify, PayPal is no respecter of basic financial courtesy.
The odd aspect to this is the freezing of the bank account - it suggests a fraud investigation. That's not to say Steven has actually done anything wrong at all, just that this action would normally mean someone is being investigated. Although PayPal may refuse to say why, it may be possible to force the bank to reveal the reason it froze the account by going to court, athough they too have the right to close an account without giving a reason.
I hope he is able to sort it out. And to everyone else I suggest you think twice before using PayPal.
i was not in the mood to be a christian, even before reading coc.
do you think there is a benifit to reading iscf?
did it solve much about the jws in your mind?.
"Because of Ray's writing style and lack of a good editor, I couldn't get through it. Ray usually says something at least two different ways, if not more per sentence. It's tedious reading for me."
Or, it could be you have a short attention span.
I enjoyed reading both books, though I found the subject matter in ISCF less interesting to me personally. I am atheist now. When I read them I was not, I was still recovering from 28 wasted years as a JW and for many like me I would say both books are essential reading.
being a jw exposed me to many bible stories.
when i am with any group of people today, except seminary students, i know far more stories and obscure ones, too.
after i left, i went on a tour of the cathedral in ny.
"In reality by focusing on the words "and they did not understand until the flood came" you are making the same mistake that JWs make, by isolating words in the bible to support a belief."
That's untrue. I am not supporting a belief, I am simply saying the original manuscripts do not say the people 'took no note'. This is confirmed by all other translations. The original Greek simply does not say it.
"It seems logical to think that those people were also warned, but simply ignored it. The bible in fact does not specifically say that Noah preached about this, but the bible does call him 'preacher of rightneouness'."
It is not the place of a translator to apply their opinions but to put in another language what the original writer was saying. If the original writer wanted to say the people of Noah's day ignored the warnings he was able to do so. He didn't. Instead he wrote they were all living their lives, unaware of what was about to happen, and he likened it to the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Referring to Noah as a 'preacher of righteouness' means he preached righteousness. The Bible does not say he warned anyone of an impending Flood. In fact, Genesis is very detailed about what Noah was to do:
Genesis 6:11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide and thirty cubits high. 16 Make a roof for it, leaving below the roof an opening one cubit high all around. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.”
22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.
Genesis 7 The LORD then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”
5 And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him.
In the scriptures God was very specific in what Noah had to do. He provided extensive details of how to build the Ark and what to put in it. NOWHERE is anything said about warning anyone. In fact the scriptures state God judged everyone and then decided who would survive, no suggestion at all is made that anyone could repent. Rather, God makes a covenant with Noah to save certain specific people only.
You can apply logic and conclude Noah preached and the people ignored him, but the Bible does not actually say he did, and the NWT has altered Matthew to state the people 'took no note' when this is not what the original Greek says at all.
If, after reading the Bible you conclude it probably happened a certain way that's fine, but it is not fine to change the scriptures themselves to state something that the original writers did not write. This is not a case of ambigious Greek with multiple possible meanings. This is a case of altering what the Bible says. It's true it's just a few words, but the entire meaning is changed by it.
BOTR is right. JW's automatically believe what they are told. And relying on the NWT alone is dangerous.
please review my letter to the irs commissioner to establish a process for revoking the tax exempt status of dangerous cults and write comments about how to improve it.. rough draft of letter.
mr. douglas h. shulman .
commissioner.
A complete waste of time!
being a jw exposed me to many bible stories.
when i am with any group of people today, except seminary students, i know far more stories and obscure ones, too.
after i left, i went on a tour of the cathedral in ny.
Wikipedia says: Since Classical times, Nimrod has traditionally been considered the leader of those who built the Tower of Babel in the land of Shinar, though the Bible never actually states this.
Judaic interpreters as early as Philo and Yochanan ben Zakai (1st century AD) interpreted "a mighty hunter before the Lord" (lit. "in the face of the Lord") as signifying "in opposition to the Lord"; a similar interpretation is found in Pseudo-Philo, as well as later in Symmachus.
This is how the JW's translate that scripture too, but, BOTR you are right, the Bible itself does not actually say it, it is derived from extra-biblical tradition, and "in opposition to the Lord" is not a literal translation of the text at all. It is interesting how they accept certain non-biblical traditions at the same time as rejecting anything that does not agree with their narrow point of view.
I remember that they also changed the translation to show that Noah preached about the end but the people 'took no note' when in fact the original manuscripts say no such thing.
Matthew 24:38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. - NWT
----All other Bibles say, in one way or another say:
Matt 24:38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.
For more proof the NWT changed the scripture to suggest there was a modern parallel with their own preaching activity:
24:39 κα? "and" ο?κ "not" ?γνωσαν "they-had-acquainted" ?ως "unto-if-which" ?λθεν "it-had-came," ? "the-one" κατακλυσμ?ς "a-dashing-down-of," κα? "and" ?ρεν "it-lifted" ?παντας, "to-along-all," ο?τως "unto-the-one-this" ?σται "it-shall-be" ? "the-one" παρουσ?α "a-being-beside-unto" το? "of-the-one" υ?ο? "of-a-Son" το? "of-the-one" ?νθρ?που. "of-a-mankind." - Westcott & Hort GNT - Literal Translation
So I agree, BOTR, not only do JW's often not have a clue what the Bible actually says but what they think they know is often based on corrupt mistranslation.
