Posts by GOrwell

190

The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

by cedars in

13 years ago

i've just posted a new blog article to jwstruggle.com on the link below:.

http://www.jwstruggle.com/2012/03/the-two-trees-my-genesis-ponderings/.

the purpose behind the article is to explore my own doubts and long-standing confusion over the genesis narrative - particularly the events surrounding adam and eve's expulsion from eden, and the "two trees" (namely the "tree of life" and the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad").. in my article i discuss my confusion over what the exact properties of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" may have been, and the fact that evidently by eating of the fruit adam and eve did not become sinful but more godlike.

13 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

palmtree : When God was detailing the trees, and what to do and what not to do in

Gen 2:16,17 : "And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

Wouldn't that be the appropiate time to lay out the requirement to eat of the tree of life on a somewhat regular schedule? After all, that would be pretty much required information, in that if you didn't eat of it, you'd die.

People assume that Adam and Eve had eternal life (immortality is not eternal life) because of verse 17, and the consequence of eating of the good/bad tree was that they would die. Ergo, if they didn't eat of that tree, they would live forever.

As well, God said all his creation was perfect. Perfection would seemingly include not being sinful and thus having to die.

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190

The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

by cedars in

13 years ago

i've just posted a new blog article to jwstruggle.com on the link below:.

http://www.jwstruggle.com/2012/03/the-two-trees-my-genesis-ponderings/.

the purpose behind the article is to explore my own doubts and long-standing confusion over the genesis narrative - particularly the events surrounding adam and eve's expulsion from eden, and the "two trees" (namely the "tree of life" and the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad").. in my article i discuss my confusion over what the exact properties of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" may have been, and the fact that evidently by eating of the fruit adam and eve did not become sinful but more godlike.

13 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

I think botchtower and mind-blown were on to something here :

@botchtowersociety said:

"I think in the story the Tree of Life represents communion with God in perfect relationship. I think the Tree of Knowledge represents trying to make ourselves God. Original sin was a breaking of the relationship. It still exists, but it is comparatively feeble."

I agree with you here. In this account, God said that they would die "in the day" or on that exact day if they ate of the Tree of Good and Bad. Of course, they eventually did die, but not right on that day. God said they would. Did God lie?

Of course not. I think Adam and Eve died spiritually on that day. With that, their perfect relationship with God, and their source of life, died as well. Allegory or not, no tree would give immortality, but the Source of Life of God could give eternal life, and it's through our eventual perfect relationship with Him that we will gain eternal life. Of course, we can have a relationship with God now, but it is as Paul said, "through a foggy mirror" (or something similar).

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39

Proof of Jesus' Deity using the NWT - One Simple Scripture

by GOrwell in

14 years ago

now, this topic is not about providing proof of the trinity using the nwt, but is instead about the deity of jesus.

yes, they are similar, but different, topics.. specifically, we can use the nwt to show the deity of jesus and how the people/authors of his day viewed who he was.

this bible quotation won't even come from the fallback jesus-is-god book of john, but instead comes from the book of luke.

12 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

I wanted to bump this thread and discuss Hebrews 2:5-9, relating to the deity of Christ. Though the authorship of Hebrews has always been up for discussion, Paul is the most commonly accepted author. Hebrews Chapter 1 goes through the same thought process of trying to identify who or what Jesus is by comparing him to angels, but Hebrews 2:5 is slighty moved to the backburner.

Heb 2:5 (NWT) : "For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But a certain witness has given proof somewhere, saying: “What is man that you keep him in mind, or [the] son of man that you take care of him? 7 You made him a little lower than angels; with glory and honor you crowned him, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.” For in that he subjected all things to him [God] left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him; 9 but we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels, crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, that he by God’s undeserved kindness might taste death for every [man]."

The main idea here is that God didn't subject the future inhabited earth to an angel. However, He did subject it to his Son. By extension, the Son/Jesus can't be an angel, because God didn't subject it to an angel.

Thus, who or what is Jesus?

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80

Weird Pic in Awake - Jesus Looks Very Pleased About Something.

by cofty in

13 years ago

a new member of the jws forum has posted this scan of a picture in the french edition the april 2011 awake.. i have never believed the subversive wt artist stories but this one is funny.. .

.

13 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

It must be one of those where if you see it, you can't unsee it, but I sure for the life of can't see it.. I don't notice anything off at all..

Edit: OK, I don't know how the first person who 'saw' (and I use that word very liberally) this came the penis conclusion.. it doesn't even vaguely look like that...

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5

Mars hill church

by stuckinamovement in

jw
friends

13 years ago

this is interesting reading.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/church-or-cult/content?oid=12172001.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2012/02/mars_hill_pastor_mark_driscoll_faces_backlash_over_church_discipline_case_.html.

13 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

I haven't ever physically visited this church, but have been lately watching quite a few of Mark Driscoll's sermons on the church website. He can be a very persuasive and emotional pastor and uses the Bible frequently. If possible, it's basically a mix of an old-school Calvinist/Reformation (Driscoll even named his kids after Calvin and friends) church with a liberal 'relaxed/hip' bent.

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26

You would return to Jehovah's Witnesses if...

by Shawn10538 in

13 years ago

someone else suggested this so i just figured, ok let's do it.. 1. all present jws died and i became the sole leader of the entire religion.

2. then i would dissolve the religion and burn every last memory of it ever existing.

3. all books would be burned, all buildings destroyed.

13 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

Possibly if they actually became Christian, acknowledge the deity of Christ and would bend their knees to Him ala Phillipians 2:9-11. A massive conversion and restructuring similar to Worldwide Church of God (?) would be required. Perhaps God would then bless them with Holy Spirit, and you would actually feel his presence if you went to a meeting.

If this actually occured, the vast 'preaching/publishing' network they have established could actually begin to be used by God to declare the real Bible's message.

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22

striking similarity to JW

by inbetween in

13 years ago

ever heard of this church ?.

example: http://rcg.org/articles/abcc.html.

very similar reasoning to jw,...

13 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

lol james_woods, I wasn't aware of that..

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17

Seriously, I wonder if this site is org approved: bethelandcitytours.com

by misguided in

jw
friends

13 years ago

i can't seem to find the editing button to put in a hyperlink:.

they also put up a video on you tube on feb 12, 2012:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbmptrqawq&feature=player_embedded.

13 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

Traditionally, the WTS has run these types of Bethel tours and international conventions through a separate travel company, at least in Canada. For Canada, this company was Exotic (Exotik?) Tours based out of Montreal. This was the only company authorized at the time to provide international convention trips. I can't remember which company provided the Bethel tours, but it certainly wasn't these guys, as it was so long ago that I visited.

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4

A New Dust Bowl For The Midwest?

by TOTH in

jw
friends

13 years ago

wow, i was reading this article and wondered if anyone else heard about this.

i have only found some small talk about it in my search and would like some credible sources to verify if this is a real concern.... http://www.mrconservative.com/2012/02/2324-dust-bowl-in-the-heartland/.

13 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

Interesting article; I knew of this general problem, but this article really brings it home how dire it's about to become. Number #13 really blew me away : "Right now, the United States uses approximately 148 trillion gallons of fresh water a year, and there is no way that is sustainable in the long run." That number is so huge, you can't even think about, it's so beyond comprehension.

In fact, just the other day I read about water authorities in Texas not releasing dam water to rice farmers because of shortages. I didn't even know they grew rice in Texas - who thought THAT was a good idea?

I would expect a water commodity market to open up in the US maybe next year or the year after. Water is the new oil.

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23

JW Match getting kinda worldly ?

by ShirleyW in

13 years ago

below is from an email jw match sent me to get more involved on their site.

taking into account how the borg feels about dating (do they still want you to be chaperoned?

) i was kinda taken aback to see this.

13 years ago

GOrwell 13 years ago

What the heck is a 'glad rag'? Sounds foreign..

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