aqwsed12345
JoinedPosts by aqwsed12345
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Questions to ask from Bible Teach Ch 8
by InterestedOne ini'm going to my jw "bible" study tonight.
we are on chapter 8 and will pick up at par 15. any suggestions for questions to ask?.
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JW's say Worldly People are Better Off DEAD
by UnDisfellowshipped injehovah's witnesses and the "better off dead" doctrine.
for decades the official jw teaching was that "worldly people" (non-jws) would be "better off dead" because "the wages sin pays is death" and once you have died, you have paid for your sins, so then jehovah is free to resurrect you (as long as you had not committed the "unforgivable sin").. whereas, if you had not died and had remained a worldly "unbeliever" when armageddon arrived, jehovah would have destroyed you and doomed you to everlasting destruction in gehenna.. this "better off dead" doctrine never did make any sense to me.
why would jehovah resurrect you if you died the day before armageddon, but if you stayed alive until the next day you would be destroyed and doomed forever to the lake of fire?
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aqwsed12345
144,000 - Do only 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses go to heaven? This paper begins with a brief summary of the Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs. It then examines several areas of interest with respect to that religion's false teachings, such as, a) whether only 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses go to heaven to rule over earthly subjects and the Great Crowd, b) whether Christ's Second Coming occurred in 1914, and whether Jesus began ruling over God's kingdom in 1914 but received only a subsidiary share of that kingdom, c) whether the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is limited to only God, Jesus and the 144,000 and whether that eternal covenant lasts only 2,000 years, d) whether resurrected man can be perfected through their educational salvation program during the thousand year reign, e) whether man is not judged for deeds committed during this life but only those committed during the 1,000 year reign, f) whether the first resurrection began in 1918, g) whether Jesus Christ is actually dispensed with after the millennial reign, and much more.
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"Oh but there is the resurrection!"
by Leto injust thought i'd share what came out of the mouth of a local elder a few months ago.. it all started when they ignored our "no tresspassing" sign, and drove up our rural driveway as part of their cult recruiting ritual, or the "bothering work" as my dad calls it.
i told him that the witlesses fly the flag of "we only believe in the bible", but that simply put, the watchtower blatantly ignores all sorts of scripture.
he looked at me funny, and i used the example of the great crowd.
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aqwsed12345
144,000 - Do only 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses go to heaven? This paper begins with a brief summary of the Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs. It then examines several areas of interest with respect to that religion's false teachings, such as, a) whether only 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses go to heaven to rule over earthly subjects and the Great Crowd, b) whether Christ's Second Coming occurred in 1914, and whether Jesus began ruling over God's kingdom in 1914 but received only a subsidiary share of that kingdom, c) whether the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is limited to only God, Jesus and the 144,000 and whether that eternal covenant lasts only 2,000 years, d) whether resurrected man can be perfected through their educational salvation program during the thousand year reign, e) whether man is not judged for deeds committed during this life but only those committed during the 1,000 year reign, f) whether the first resurrection began in 1918, g) whether Jesus Christ is actually dispensed with after the millennial reign, and much more.
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
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WTBTS "uses" heroes of church history only when it suits them to make a point
by AuntBee in" god raised up bold champions for his word, among whom were luther, zwingli, melanchthon, wycliffe, knox and others.
" (divine plan of the ages) um...hello??
bold champions for his word?
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aqwsed12345
Were the Early Christians Jehovah’s Witnesses?
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What is "the Kingdom"?
by Darth Eowyn ini have been lurking for a couple of months and decided to join because i wanted to get further information.. i am not a jw, ex jw, or even considering becoming a jw.
i am a fairly devout, practicing catholic.
two weeks ago, a couple of jw publishers stopped by to discuss their schtick.
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aqwsed12345
- http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
- http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/144000.php & http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/great-crowd-other-sheep.php
- http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/1144000andmemorial.html
- http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/seeds-of-doubt-for-jehovahs-witnesses-...
- http://ia700108.us.archive.org/15/items/IsYourHopeBible-based/Is_Your_Hope_Bible...
- http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/do-the-old-testament-saints-receive-a-...
- http://www.apocalipsis.org/144000.htm
- http://www.apocalipsis.org/rev-7.htm#multitude
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Does the WT use Bibles other than the NWT in other languages?
by dgp ini will very much appreciate help with this.. we know that the watchtower has translated the bible to many languages.
but i remember that ray franz mentions how witnesses in africa carried bibles in several african languages, and those were translations made by other christians.
is that still the case?
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aqwsed12345
Before the NWT been available, usually their country's own traditional Protestant Bible translations were used. Other Bible translations is used today in Watchtower : for example, when they curse Catholics , they use the Catholic translation , etc. . but most JW individuals usually don't use other than the NWT. Sometimes a few fanatical JW acquire many other Bible translation , to then online pompously shout: " well, even that support us ! " (in some particular verses)
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Less or More Violence Today?
by peacefulpete inon another thread msjones posted a link to a video lecture dealing with the lucifer effect which i enjoyed but then found the a steven pinker lecture dealing with the myth of increasing violence and had to share it.
reaserch reveals a sharp decline in violence over the millenia, centuries and decades.
he postulates why and why we commonly perceive the opposite.
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aqwsed12345
Were the Early Christians Jehovah’s Witnesses?
- http://www.cephas-library.com/jw_faith_of_our_fathers_1.html
- http://www.cephas-library.com/jw_faith_of_our_fathers_2.html
The Alleged "Apostasy" Of Christendom
A recent Watchtower magazine expounds the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ view that orthodox Christianity ("Christendom") underwent a great apostasy after the death of the apostles: "The death of the apostles removed a restraining influence, allowing a widespread apostasy to develop. (2 Thessalonians 2:7, 8) An organization grew up that unworthily professed to be God’s congregation. It falsely claimed to be the holy nation anointed with God’s spirit to rule with Jesus."
The Witnesses believe that the influx of pagan converts brought in doctrines and concepts from Greek philosophy and religion which were then integrated into the Christian faith, resulting in such "false" teachings as the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the immortality of the soul, and eternal punishment in hell. According to the Watchtower Society, Christendom lived in darkness for 18 centuries after this apostasy. Yet they believe there were always individuals who were faithful to divine truth — a truth more fully unveiled when their founder, Charles Russell, began to study the Bible in earnest in the 1870s. To support this view, Watchtower literature regularly cites passages from the church fathers to demonstrate that, even after the apostasy, there were some who believed as Jehovah’s Witnesses do today.
In light of this line of argumentation, it is worthwhile to examine the writings of the early church fathers. If indeed such writings reveal that early Christians believed as Jehovah’s Witnesses do today, then surely a reevaluation of orthodox Christian teachings is needed. If these writings fail to support Watchtower claims, however, then one must conclude that Jehovah’s Witnesses represent a new religious tradition of the late 19th century, with no historical connection to apostolic Christianity.
The body of literature of the postapostolic church is substantial, and a full review would be outside of the scope of a limited survey such as this. The most critical period is that prior to the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325, because it is historically closest to the apostles. Part One of this series will examine writings from this period that relate to the question of whether the church underwent a great apostasy. It will also investigate what the church fathers say about one of the most critical doctrines of the Christian faith — the divine nature of Christ. Part Two will review other important doctrines of the faith, such as the nature of the Holy Spirit, the soul, and the fate of the wicked.
Did a Great Apostasy Occur?
Was the true faith taught by the apostles lost or corrupted within the first generation after the apostles? If so, then the true faith was not successfully transmitted anywhere in the evangelized world of the first and second centuries — including churches established by the apostles, with leadership appointed personally by them. A "great apostasy" would require an extraordinary event: the simultaneous loss of faith by an entire generation of Christians throughout the civilized world. Included in this apostasy would be disciples of the apostles themselves, as well as those who witnessed the thousands of martyrs who, just a short time previously, refused to deny Christ, either explicitly or by worshiping pagan gods.
A great apostasy, wherein the doctrines of Greek pagan philosophy replaced apostolic teaching, would most likely have begun in areas where the church was accepting a large number of converts with backgrounds in Greek religion and philosophy, such as Alexandria, Egypt. The prominent western churches established directly by the apostles, such as those in Rome and Antioch, would likely have fallen into heresy more slowly. But the historical facts do not support this (or any other) scenario of a "great apostasy." Had a great apostasy begun immediately after the death of the apostles, as the Watchtower claims, a mixture of "true Christianity" (i.e., Watchtower–type teachings) and "pagan heresy" (i.e., orthodox Christian teachings) would be discernible in the literature of the early church, which was widespread in its geographical points of origin.
Is it possible that all the writings of the followers of the "true faith" were completely destroyed by the paganized church? Such a view is highly improbable. Many manuscripts have survived from Gnosticism (a widespread religious movement of this period which combined elements of Greek paganism and eastern mystery religions), despite several centuries of concerted attack and condemnation by the church. Yet not a single document exists pointing to a group who believed as the Jehovah’s Witnesses do today.
The absence of such early "Watchtower" literature causes one to doubt the existence of the so-called "faithful and discrete servant class." After all, the stated purpose of these 144,000 anointed servants in Jehovah’s plan is to provide "meat in due season" — that is, literature that imparts "accurate knowledge" about the Bible. If these early Jehovah’s Witnesses were true to the kingdom gospel, handed down to them by the apostles, they would have written sufficiently to provide the faithful with an understanding of the Scriptures. Keep in mind that the Watchtower Society teaches that the Scriptures cannot be properly understood without such aids. Yet where is the Watchtower literature of the first and second centuries — or for that matter, of any century prior to the 1870s? Its absence is most telling, and highly damaging to the claim of a general apostasy with just a few of the dedicated faithful surviving.
Perhaps the most compelling argument against a universal early apostasy may be found in the commissioning and empowering of the apostles themselves. If a universal apostasy occurred immediately after the death of the apostles, we would have to judge the apostles as incompetent or negligent evangelists who utterly failed to accomplish Jesus’ commission to make disciples. Such an apostasy would reflect poorly on Jehovah God as well, whose "holy spirit" was unable to preserve His followers for even a single generation.
There is, therefore, no reason to believe that a great apostasy occurred following the death of the apostles, with the resulting loss of the "true" Christian faith for over 1800 years. This conclusion seems undeniable in view of the Great Commission, the power of the Holy Spirit, the absence of literary evidence for an alternative group of believers with a gospel similar to that preached by Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the implausibility of the required simultaneous loss of faith by an entire generation of geographically dispersed Christians.
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Public Talks - German
by username11 inhas somebody of u public talks on german??.
or just a website where to download it.
i m very interested in listening to this talks.
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The Second Death
by cameo-d inwe are born into this world spiritually ignorant.
in the same way that many of you feel that you were trapped by circumstances in this religion by being a "born in" likewise many other people experience the same feelings whether it is a religion or a political system.
i think it is our mission in this world to become aware of the falsehoods that we are brought into by birth because it develops our conscience.
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aqwsed12345
Gehenna / Hell / The Lake of Fire
. . . It is the loss of all good . . . and the misery of an evil conscience banished from God and from the society of the holy, and dwelling under God's positive curse forever . . . The decisive and controlling element is not the outward, but the inward . . . The figurative language of Scripture is a miniature representation of what cannot be fully described in words . . . the unholiness and separation from God of a guilty and accusing conscience, of which fire and brimstone are symbols . . . the future punishment of the wicked is not annihilation . . . the wicked enter at death upon a state of conscious suffering which the resurrection and the judgment only augment and render permanent.
(Augustus H. Strong, Systematic Theology, Westwood, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1907, 1033-1036)