aqwsed12345
JoinedPosts by aqwsed12345
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If JW is not the truth, then what is the true religion?
by TxNVSue2023 ineven though i'm disfellowshiped ( & i belive wrongfully so).
i still belive this is the truth.
i have been d'f for about 8 months now and working on reinstatement.
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"Outside the realms" of the words meaning?
by Blotty ini was recently doing some research and came across this curious quite from dr beduhn - i can't say how valid it is or if he actually said it (source linked).
but this got me thinking i don't think there is anything in any bible where it is a "deliberate" distortion or the words go against the "possible range of meanings the greek" could have.
i know beduhn is not considered an authority however he does have a point - if its in the range of meanings it is by no means a mistranslation & cannot be pointed out as such.
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"outside of time" argument
by Blotty inthis is going to be very brief but a user recently tried to argue an argument that has already been refuted many times - the logic is somewhat sound but falls apart when the definition to the word used it looked and its usages in the bible.the word in question is "aionas" found in the scripture in question hebrews 1:2 .
(https://biblehub.com/hebrews/1-2.htm#lexicon)for starters look at the biblehub translations - do any of them state "outside of time" or that time was "created" in this moment - no because this seems to be heavily inspired by greek philosophy rather than the bible itself.note: i am not saying this word does not mean eternity or anything of the sort, i am saying this scripture some of the claims i dispute and can easily disprove, hence the argument is laughable.. bill mounce defines the word as:pr.
a period of time of significant character; life; an era; an age: hence, a state of things marking an age or era; the present order of nature; the natural condition of man, the world; ὁ αἰών, illimitable duration, eternity; as also, οἱ αἰῶνες, ὁ αἰῶν τῶν αἰώνων, οἱ αἰῶνες τῶν αἰώνων; by an aramaism οἱ αἰῶνες, the material universe, heb.
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aqwsed12345
@EasyPrompt
I see that my request to you to avoid the many unnecessary line breaks, "joking" comments and the insertion of unnecessary videos is in vain.
"Father means procreator. The children of the Father are His creation."
And yet the Scriptures still clearly distinguish the birth of the only-begotten Son from the making of creatures, and the Scipture never calls the Son a creature. It is just WTS theology. The Son/Logos is the "only-begotten" Son of the Father, so He is unique in his kind, His sonship to the Father is qualitatively different, superior from that of the angels, since He alone is said to have been born / begotten by the Father, while the angels were created.
"When there was nobody else in existence besides God, God fathered Jesus."
The actions that take place (with)in God do not take place in time, since God is not subject to temporality, and obviously the imperfect human language can only speak about God in an analogical way, cf. Isaiah 55:8-9, Acts 17:29. It is clear from Hebrews 1:5 that the birth of the Son from the Father took place in the "today" of God. Hebrews 1:5 does not refer to the birth of Jesus as a human from Mary, but to his birth from the Father in the aions before "the beginning". Especially since it is clear from John 1:1a that he "was" already "in the beginning".
"After that, Jesus helped God make everything else. "
The Son has not merely "helped", cf. Hebrews 1:10. God created all creatures exclusively and directly ("alone," "by himself," "with his own hands"), there is no such thing as "indirect creation" by using a creature, the idea that a creature, a "lesser god", other than YHWH God, also participates in creation, is refuted by Isaiah 44:24; 45:12, 48:13, Malachi 2:10; Job 9:2,8, Psalm 95:5-6, Neh 9:6. If God created by actually doing it through an "agent", who is not one God with him, then he did not create "alone". If I build my house through an "agent", then I did not build my house "alone". And the Scripture itself uses the analogy of building a house for creation: Hebrews 3:4.
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"outside of time" argument
by Blotty inthis is going to be very brief but a user recently tried to argue an argument that has already been refuted many times - the logic is somewhat sound but falls apart when the definition to the word used it looked and its usages in the bible.the word in question is "aionas" found in the scripture in question hebrews 1:2 .
(https://biblehub.com/hebrews/1-2.htm#lexicon)for starters look at the biblehub translations - do any of them state "outside of time" or that time was "created" in this moment - no because this seems to be heavily inspired by greek philosophy rather than the bible itself.note: i am not saying this word does not mean eternity or anything of the sort, i am saying this scripture some of the claims i dispute and can easily disprove, hence the argument is laughable.. bill mounce defines the word as:pr.
a period of time of significant character; life; an era; an age: hence, a state of things marking an age or era; the present order of nature; the natural condition of man, the world; ὁ αἰών, illimitable duration, eternity; as also, οἱ αἰῶνες, ὁ αἰῶν τῶν αἰώνων, οἱ αἰῶνες τῶν αἰώνων; by an aramaism οἱ αἰῶνες, the material universe, heb.
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aqwsed12345
@EasyPrompt
Use less line spacing, clown comments, and redundant, absolutely unnecessary funny pictures and videos.
“”Begotten" means created.”Ah…. and should I just believe this on your mere statement? I don't even understand why the theologians argued so much about this, if it would have been enough to throw in 3 (!) words. What kind of intellectual pretentiousness is this?
Well, nope. Since the Holy Scriptures clearly state many times that the Son was begotten / born of the Father, but never that he was created, there is therefore no reason to assume that he was a creature.
Just answer the rhetorical question at Hebrews 1:5:"For which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"?"
Doesn't this just prove that his origin from the Father is qualitatively different (superior) from that of the creatures? That he was born is not the same as creation? We know well that Jesus is the only-begotten God (μονογενης θεος), and not a created angel.
The Word is the real Son of the Father, and not His crearure. Birth, indeed, is not creation. For man, animal, and stone were created, but they were not begotten from the essence of God, etc. Begetting or giving birth is not creation, because by it a being of the same nature is born (begotten), whereas in creation it is not. -
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Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"
by aqwsed12345 inthe narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.
the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).
he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.
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aqwsed12345
In the Old Testament, what terms are used to describe the dwelling place of the spirits of the deceased?
In Genesis 37:35, Jacob, who believed that his son Joseph was killed by a wild animal, says, “... In mourning I will go down to my son in the land of the dead (Sheol).”
It's impossible that the Hebrew word Sheol could mean grave or hell, since these words express two completely different things.
We can also clearly see that the Hebrew word Sheol used in the Old Testament (mentioned 65 times in the Old Testament) is synonymous with the word Hades in the New Testament, both referring to the dwelling place of the deceased's spirit.
The identical meaning of Sheol and Hades is clear when we compare Psalm 16:10 with Acts 2:27, which quotes an Old Testament passage about the Messiah. Acts 2:27 says, “... for you will not leave my soul in the realm of the dead (Hades), ...” And in Psalm 16:10, we read: “For you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead (Sheol).” The well-known Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) always translates the word Sheol as 'hades', which does not mean damnation at all.
The Watchtower Society says that Sheol or hell simply means the grave pit, the piece of land where the dead body is placed. How this does not reflect reality, and has no biblical basis, can be proved as follows:
The Hebrew word for grave is "qeber," corresponding to the Greek word "mneemaion." We must also know that Sheol or Hades never appears in the plural. In contrast, "qeber" occurs 27 times in plural. The same applies to the Greek word "mneemaion." From this, it follows that Sheol or Hades refers to a specific “place,” unlike “qeber” or “mneemeion,” which refer to many places. We never say, "This is my own Sheol," but we do say, "this is my grave ("qeber")." The "qeber" is, therefore, the place of dead bodies, or the cemetery. We do not say that a Sheol was dug, but that a grave was dug for someone. The "qeber" or "mneemeion" always refers to a specific person, while Sheol or Hades is used in a general sense by Scripture.
Jacob said this to Joseph: “I am about to die, but bury me in my tomb..." (Gen 50:5) In contrast, Sheol or Hades never belongs to a person or persons. We do not say that the body goes to Hades, nor do we say that the spirit dwells in the grave. We do not read that a Sheol was dug, and into it was laid the spirit of a man. (cf. 1 Kings 13:30; Jer 8:1; 2 Sam 21:14; Neh 2:5) The Bible uses Sheol exclusively for human souls and never signifies someone's possession, unlike a burial site.
Gehenna, a part of the Sheol / Hades, is the tormenting place for the godless. “For a fire is kindled in my anger, and burns to the depths of Sheol...” (Deut 32:22); “The cords of death encompassed me; the torrents of destruction assailed me...” (Psalm 116:3). The word "qeber" is never associated with judgment or punishment since the body placed in the grave feels nothing. In contrast, the deceased's spirit or soul in Sheol feels and is conscious.
Let there be two examples from the Old Testament for this purpose.
When Jacob's sons and daughters tried to comfort him because of Joseph, he said, "I will go down to the land of the dead (to Sheol) in mourning for my son" (Genesis 37:35). Jacob believed that his son had been torn apart by wild animals, so they could not bury him. He did not want to see his grave, but in his grief, he thought that they would meet in Sheol. We cannot say that one dead body will meet another; this would be senseless.
A more expressive example can be found in the Book of Samuel when Saul goes to the witch to summon Samuel from the land of the dead, from Sheol. Samuel says to Saul: "…and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me" (1 Samuel 28:19). This event convincingly proves that a person exists after death, has understanding, can communicate, and does not cease to be with death.
Where is Sheol? In the Old Testament, out of 65 places, Sheol is mentioned 20 times as a place that is "down," somewhere in the depths. "…and they will go down alive into the pit (to Sheol)…" (Numbers 16:30). Similarly, we find this expression in the New Testament concerning Capernaum. "And you, Capernaum… You will be brought down to hell!" (Matthew 11:30). From these verses, it could be concluded that Sheol or Hades is located somewhere down, in the depths, as Tartarus also expresses the depth or the underworld.
The Bible does not detail the specific definition of these concepts, but we can understand that Sheol or Hades represents a state into which the human spirit (soul) enters without the body. It is, therefore, an immaterial, or non-material, state.
Just as God's "residence," who is Spirit, is in heaven, which cannot be defined in space or time, so Sheol is the "dwelling place" of souls or spirits. We humans live within the limits of space and time and can only think and create concepts accordingly. Therefore, we can only imagine Sheol as a territory in a specific place. This is also reflected in the description of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man asks Abraham to have Lazarus return to Earth to warn his brothers, so they do not come to this place of torment.
It is difficult or even impossible to define non-material things with material concepts. Spiritual matters can only be interpreted spiritually, as Paul talks about sensory and spiritual bodies (1 Corinthians 15:44). The question of where Sheol is located is not really valid. It is best described as a spiritual state, described in the Bible as the "dwelling place" of the deceased's spirit.
In contrast, the usual expression for "grave" is "qeber" in Hebrew, and "taphos" or "mnémeion" in Greek. Sheol differs from the grave, among other things, in that it is found in a great "depth" (Deuteronomy 32:22; Job 11:8; 26:5; Isaiah 14:15), "gates" shut it off (Psalms 9:14; Isaiah 38:10; cf. Matthew 16:18), and that a person "descends," "goes down" here, while being buried. Although contact with the world is broken in Sheol, it is not unconsciousness but the ability to perceive and act that characterizes it. The relevant biblical places (e.g., Isaiah 14:9-17; Ezekiel 31; Job 14:18-22; 26:5; cf. Luke 16:19-31) may contain figurative elements in detail, but the accounts point to life after death. In contrast to the Old Testament era, the concept of "sheol/hades" expanded in meaning in the New Testament. Beyond the old designation applied to the whole world of the dead, the word may mean either the intermediate dwelling place of all the dead or the place of the souls of the ungodly. Differing from the above, "Gehenna" denotes the "final destination" of the damned, the eternal fiery lake. The associated reality in the New Testament is depicted as follows: Weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:12; 13:42.50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:10).
Sheol
“This word is used in the Old Testament for the place of the dead . . . In the later Jewish literature we meet with the idea of divisions within Sheol for the wicked and the righteous, in which each experiences a foretaste of his final destiny . . .”
(The New Bible Dictionary, J.D. Douglas, editor, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1962, 518)“The Hebrew word designating the unseen abode of the dead; a neutral word, presupposing neither misery nor happiness.”
(Augustus H. Strong, Systematic Theology, Westwood, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1907, 994)“While the word Sheol, does not pointedly refer to a definitive doctrine of endless retribution, but rather to a shadowy existence beyond the grave, it nevertheless reflects the belief in a future and continued existence.”
(Merrill C. Tenney, Pictorial Bible Dictionary, Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, rev. ed., 1967, 346)Hades
“The region of departed spirits of the lost (but including the blessed dead in periods preceding the Ascension of Christ) . . . It corresponds to Sheol in the O.T. IN the KJV . . . it has unhappily been rendered "Hell," e.g., Ps. 16:10; or "the grace," e.g., Gen. 37:35 . . . It never denotes the grave, nor is it the permanent region of the lost; in point of time it is, for such, intermediate between decease and the doom of Gehenna. For the condition, see Luke 16:23-31.”
(W.E. Vine, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Old Tappan, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1940; under "Hades")“. . . the nether world, the realm of the dead . . . In the Septuagint the Hebrew Sheol is almost always rendered by this word . . . the infernal regions, a dark and dismal place . . . the common receptacle of disembodied spirits.”
(Joseph Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT, 11)The King James Version caused lasting confusion by translating both Greek words hades and gehenna as “hell.” This is often reflected in older Orthodox liturgical texts which say that “Christ descended into hell.”
However, properly speaking, “hell” is theologically equivalent to gehenna or to “the lake of fire” of the “second death” (Rev. 20:14; 21:8). On the other hand, hades is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew sheol – the common place or state of the reposed. Paradise (Luke 23:43) or Abraham’s bosom (Luke 16:22) were understood as places or conditions within hades-sheol. Hence, the spirits of the righteous of old, as well as that of the repentant thief and of our Lord himself went into hades, but not into hell (gehenna or “the lake of fire”).
It is true that Sheol / Hades is the abode of both the wicked and the righteous, but it was not the literal grave, as JWs assert. Rather, it is a place of consciousness, albeit shadowy and quite mysterious. As revealed in the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Lk 16:19-31), there was a gulf between the wicked and the righteous, and differential reward.
Since the Incarnation, Resurrection, and Ascension of Christ, however, things have changed. Believers in Christ at death go to the Lord as spirits awaiting resurrection of their bodies (2 Cor 5:1-8, Lk 23:42-43, Phil 1:23), and the New Heaven and Earth (Rev 21), whereas unbelievers are separated from God in a state of suffering (2 Peter 2:4-9), awaiting the Last Judgment (Rev 20:11-15) and punishment in the Lake of Fire, which is their final state. The doctrine of hell has always been a belief of histroic, orthodox Christianity. It was not introduced in the "dark ages," as Charles T. Russell stated disparagingly, but by explicit teaching from our Lord Jesus Himself and the Apostles:
“The reality and eternity of suffering in Gehenna is an element of biblical truth that an honest exegesis cannot evade.”
(The New Bible Dictionary, J.D. Douglas, editor, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1962, 519)Qeber / Mnemeion: "Grave" in Hebrew and Greek
The Hebrew word qeber (Strong's word #6913) is the true "grave" in the OT. In the KJV it is translated "grave" 35 times, "sepulchre" 26 times, and "burying place" in 6 places. The related qeburah (STraong's word #6900) is translated similarly 14 times (see, e.g., 1 Kings 13:30, 2 Sam 3:32, Gen 35:20, Jer 8:1). The NT equivalent is menemeion (Strong's word #3419), which in the KJV is rendered "sepulchre" 29 times, "grave" 8 times, and "tomb" five times (for "grave" see Mt 27:52-53, Lk 11:44, Jn 5:28, 11:17,31,38, 12:17).
The contrast between these words and Sheol and Hades is evident. No Sheol is ever dug, but qeber is dug six times (e.g., Gen 50:5, Is 22:16). Bodies are never put in Sheol by man, but men put bodies in qeber 37 times. No person has a Sheol, but they have a qeber, also on 37 occasions in the Bible. Unlike Sheol, qeber is on the surface of the earth, 32 times. Sheol is never pluralized like qeber (29 instances). God alone puts men in Sheol (Num 16:30-33, 1 Sam 2:6). The body is never said to be in Sheol, and the spirit is never sdaid to be in a grave. In the final judgment (Rev 20:13), death (qeber / mnemeion ) and Hades (Sheol) will deliver up the dead (i.e., the bodies from the former and the spirits from the latter). It is patently obvious, then, that the Bible differentiates between one's literal grave, and the region to which souls depart and continue their existence.
Unseen place:
- Hebrew: sheol
- Greek: Hades
Grave:
- Hebrew: kever
- Greek: mnemeion
- There is a separate word for grave in both Hebrew and Greek in distinction from sheol/hades
- In the New Testament, Hades NEVER means the grave. "mnemeion", which is the Greek word for grave. It is always translated as Hades which meant the underworld.
- The soul or spirit is never said to go to the grave "mnemeion".
- The body is never said to go to hades or sheol.
- Isa. 14:19, the king is cast out of his grave (kever) in order to be thrown into Sheol where the departed spirits can rebuke him (vv.9-10). In this passage, Sheol and kever are opposites, not synonyms. This distinction is maintained in the Septuagint as well. In the Septuagint, Sheol is never translated as mneema, which is the Greek word for grave. It is always translated as Hades which meant the underworld.
Many distinctions exist between kever and Sheol:
- While bodies are unconscious in the grave, those in Sheol are viewed as being conscious.
- While touching a grave brings ceremonial defilement (Num. 19:16), the Scriptures never speak of anyone being defiled by Sheol.
- While we can enter and leave a tomb or grave [heb: kever] (2 Kings 23:16), no one is ever said to enter and then leave Sheol, unless God causes it to happen. If sheol is the merely the grave, then men should have the power to bring up the dead from sheol!
The following is a limited study of the meaning of Sheol in the Old Testament. Jehovah's Witnesses and others maintain that Sheol is the common grave of mankind, and that man ceases to exist at death. They also deny any conscious punishment of the wicked after death.
It is my conviction that the Scriptural concept of Sheol is *not* simply the grave. I believe that thorough study of the word in the Scriptures reveals it to be a place of conscious existence for souls after death. Without getting too long-winded, her a a few reasons why I believe this is so:
1) There exists in Hebrew a specific word for the grave: kever. When the biblical authors wanted to speak of the grave, they used the word kever. That they did not view kever and Sheol as synonymous is clear from the way these words are used throughout the Old Testament. For example, in Isa. 14:19, the king is cast out of his grave (kever) in order to be thrown into Sheol where the departed spirits can rebuke him (vv.9,10). In this passage, Sheol and kever are opposites, not synonyms.
2) This distinction is maintained in the Septuagint as well. In the Septuagint, Sheol is never translated as mneema, which is the Greek word for grave. It is always translated as Hades which meant the underworld.
3) Many distinctions exist between kever and Sheol. While bodies are unconscious in the grave, those in Sheol are viewed as being conscious (Isa. 14:4-7; 44:23; Ezek. 31:16; 32:21). While touching a grave brings ceremonial defilement (Num. 19:16), the Scriptures never speak of anyone being defiled by Sheol. While we can enter and leave a tomb or grave (2 Kings 23:16), no one is ever said to enter and then leave Sheol. Many other such distinctions can be found in the Hebrew scriptures.
4) God's revelation to OT saints about the afterlife was not complete. As such, much of the language used about Sheol is figurative, and incomplete in descriptiveness. Nevertheless, it is clear, I believe, that these saints understood that Sheol represented a place of conscious existence after death, and not simply the common grave of mankind. It was viewed as a place where one can reunite with his ancestors, tribe or people (Gen. 15:15; 25:8; 35:29; 37:35; 49:33; Num. 20:24, 28; 31:2; Deut. 32:50; 34:5; 2 Sam. 12:23). This cannot refer to one common mass grave where everyone was buried. No such graves ever existed in recorded history. Sheol is the place where the souls of all men go at death. That is why Jacob looked forward to reuniting with Joseph in Sheol (Gen 37:35).
5) The Scriptures suggest that Sheol has different sections. There is the contrast between "the lowest part" and "the highest part" of Sheol (Deut. 32:22). This figurative language implies that there are divisions or distinctions within Sheol. While this is not clearly stated in the Old Testament, there seems to be some kind of distinction within Sheol. Later rabbinic writers clearly taught that Sheol had two sections. The righteous were in bliss in one section while the wicked were in torment in the other.
6) the condition of those in Sheol is described in the following ways: At death man becomes a rephaim, i.e., a "ghost, "shade," or "disembodied spirit" according to Job 26:5; Ps. 88:10; Prov. 2:18; 9:18; 21:16; Isa. 14:9; 26:14,19. Instead of describing man as passing into nonexistence, the Old Testament states that man becomes a disembodied spirit. The usage of the word rephaim establishes this truth. Langenscheidt's Hebrew-English Dictionary to the Old Testament (p.324) defines rephaim as referring to the "departed spirits, Hades." Brown, Driver and Briggs (p.952) define rephaim as "Hades, ghosts...name of dead in Sheol." Keil and Delitzsch define rephaim as referring to "those who are bodiless in the state after death." This concept is carried on into the New Testament in such places as Luke 24:37-39. A belief in "ghosts" necessarily entails a belief that man survives the death of the body. Those in Sheol are pictured as conversing with each other and even making moral judgments on the lifestyle of new arrivals (Isa. 14:9-20; 44:23; Ezek. 32:21). They are thus conscious entities while in Sheol.
7) God's judgment upon the wicked does not cease when the wicked die in their sins. Thus some of the spirits in Sheol experience the following:
a. God's anger (Deut. 32:22): According to Moses, the wicked experience the fire of YHWH's anger in the "lowest part of Sheol." This passage would make no sense if the wicked are nonexistent and Sheol is the grave.
b. Distress (Ps. 116:3): The Hebrew word matzar refers to the distress that is felt when in the straits of a difficulty. It is found in this sense in Ps. 118:5. Also, the word chevel, which is the poetic parallel for matzar, means "cords of distress" (2 Sam. 22:6; Ps. 18:6).
c. Writhing in pain (Job 26:5): The Hebrew word chool means to twist and turn in pain like a woman giving birth.
It is obvious that nonexistence can hardly experience anger, distress, or the like.
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"outside of time" argument
by Blotty inthis is going to be very brief but a user recently tried to argue an argument that has already been refuted many times - the logic is somewhat sound but falls apart when the definition to the word used it looked and its usages in the bible.the word in question is "aionas" found in the scripture in question hebrews 1:2 .
(https://biblehub.com/hebrews/1-2.htm#lexicon)for starters look at the biblehub translations - do any of them state "outside of time" or that time was "created" in this moment - no because this seems to be heavily inspired by greek philosophy rather than the bible itself.note: i am not saying this word does not mean eternity or anything of the sort, i am saying this scripture some of the claims i dispute and can easily disprove, hence the argument is laughable.. bill mounce defines the word as:pr.
a period of time of significant character; life; an era; an age: hence, a state of things marking an age or era; the present order of nature; the natural condition of man, the world; ὁ αἰών, illimitable duration, eternity; as also, οἱ αἰῶνες, ὁ αἰῶν τῶν αἰώνων, οἱ αἰῶνες τῶν αἰώνων; by an aramaism οἱ αἰῶνες, the material universe, heb.
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aqwsed12345
Shemot 34:20
- להקב"ה שהוא בכורו של עולם
- lehaqadosh baruch hu shehu bekhoro shel olam
- "Blessed be He (i.e. God), that He is the firstborn of the world"
Kli Yakar on Exodus 9:14:5
- בהקדוש ברוך הוא בכורו של עולם כדאיתא בספר נוה שלום
- behakadosh baruch hu bekhoro shel olam keda'ita b'sefer noveh shalom
- "...the Holy One, Blessed be He, the firstborn of the world, as is found in the book 'Nove Shalom'"
In this context, the phrase "בכורו של עולם" (bekhoro shel olam), translated as "the firstborn of the world," is referring to God. The text seems to be using metaphorical language to describe Pharaoh's defiance against God, who is referred to here as the "firstborn of the world." This text connects the concept of the firstborn to God, referencing Him as the "firstborn of the world." It's not referring to a literal firstborn person but is using the term to emphasize the primacy and preeminence of God.
Rabbi Bahya ben Asher on Exodus 34:20 in Mikraot Gedolot:
"Redeem every firstborn of your sons, and do not appear before Me empty-handed – anyone who has the merit of being a firstborn, it is a great virtue, and it is a hint to the Holy One, Blessed be He, that He is the Firstborn of the world. The service of offerings in ancient times was with the firstborns; thus, Jacob was zealous, and Esau the wicked sold [his birthright], despising the service of the Blessed God. Afterward, the firstborns were disqualified by the sin of the Golden Calf, and the Levites were separated in their place so that the service should be with them and not with the firstborns. Even though the service is not with them, they still have virtue and advantage over other people, because they are firstborns. Our Rabbis expounded: anything that is said to be 'Mine' (i.e., belonging to God) is in this world and in the world to come; Israel is [considered as such] in this world and in the world to come, as it is said."
This passage speaks of the great status of the firstborn and connects it symbolically to God, who is referred to as the "firstborn of the world."
Klei Yakar on Exodus 9:14
"The hail struck what was selected first, in retaliation for Pharaoh's insolence toward the Holy One, blessed be He, the Firstborn of the world, as is mentioned in the book 'Naveh Shalom,' and incidentally, the verse informed us about the flax and barley."
The term "firstborn of the world" in this context likely refers to God's status as the ultimate origin and creator of the universe. In Jewish thought, God is often described as the "first" in the sense that He is preeminent, supreme, and without beginning. The world was created by Him, and everything in existence comes from Him.
By describing God as the "firstborn of the world," the text may be emphasizing the special status of the firstborn as a reflection or symbol of God's own primacy and sovereignty. Just as the firstborn child has a particular status within a family, God's status as the "firstborn" signifies His unique and unparalleled position in relation to the created world.
The concept also connects with the theme of redemption, as it may be drawing an analogy between the redemption of the firstborn son in Jewish law and the ultimate redemption of the world by God. In this view, the redemption of the firstborn is not just a legal requirement but carries deeper theological and eschatological significance, reflecting broader themes of divine order, holiness, and redemption.
The phrase "πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως" from Colossians 1:15 translates to "the firstborn of all creation" and is used in the New Testament to describe Jesus Christ. Both the Jewish concept of God as the "firstborn of the world" and the Christian concept of Christ as the "firstborn of all creation" deal with the notion of primacy and preeminence.
Jewish Concept (Firstborn of the World):
- Applied to: God, the Creator of the universe.
- Meaning: Emphasizes God's unique status as the source and origin of all creation. God's being referred to as the "firstborn" symbolizes His supremacy and sovereignty.
- Theological Implications: This concept underscores the monotheistic belief in one God, who is above all and the source of everything. The status of the firstborn in Jewish law may also be a reflection of this divine attribute.
Christian Concept (the Firstborn of All Creation, Colossians 1:15):
- Applied to: Jesus Christ.
- Meaning: This term is part of a larger Christological statement that emphasizes Jesus' preeminence over creation and His unique relationship to God the Father. Being the "firstborn" is understood in the context of primacy and supremacy over all creation.
- Theological Implications: This concept is deeply rooted in the Christian understanding of the Trinity, where Jesus is considered both distinct from and one with the Father. It asserts Jesus' deity and His unique role in the process of creation and redemption.
Thus both terms use the metaphor of the "firstborn". In Judaism, it emphasizes God's unique status as Creator, while in Christianity, it speaks to the unique role and nature of Jesus Christ in relation to all creation. Both terms underscore a theme of primacy and supremacy in their respective contexts.
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Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"
by aqwsed12345 inthe narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.
the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).
he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.
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aqwsed12345
@Vanderhoven7
The 'sheol' / 'hades' is not the grave, the grave is in 'qeber' in Hebrew, and 'taphos' / 'mnémeion' is Greek.
Your views are contradicted by numerous passages in the Scriptures, for example, 1 Samuel 28; Job 19:26; 26:5-6; Isaiah 14:9-11. 15-17; Matthew 17:3; 22:31-32; Luke 16:19-31; 23:43; Philippians 1:21-24; 2 Corinthians 5:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:1; Revelation 5:8; 6:9-10; 7:10; 20:4. In all these places, the souls of the dead are alive, conscious, and aware.
Eternal damnation is explicitly taught in the Bible, compare: Deut 32:22, Is 33:11.14, 66:24, Dan 12:2, Psalm 21:10, Mt 8:12; Mt 25:41, Mt 25:46, Mt 3:12; Mk 9:43-49, Lk 3:16-17, Lk 13:28, Rom 2:6-9, 2Tess 1:6-9, 2Pt 2:4, Rev 14:11, Rev 20:10.15.
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Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"
by aqwsed12345 inthe narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.
the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).
he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.
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aqwsed12345
The Resurrection of Lazarus and the Afterlife
According to the gospel, Jesus resurrected Lazarus, who had lain in the grave for four days. It's an amazing thing that Lazarus, who spent four days in the afterlife, did not speak about the afterlife at all. He could have convinced so many unbelievers with this. Indeed, if I could glimpse into the afterlife for even a quarter of an hour, I would eagerly relate everything I saw there.
But this makes one think, how can there be an afterlife if even those who came back from it don't talk about it?
First of all, a counter-question: how does the one who asks this know that Lazarus did not speak of what he saw in the afterlife? Of course, we don't know this because the gospel does not accidentally speak of it. So the objection collapses at this point. It's possible that Lazarus indeed spoke of the afterlife, and in that case, he undoubtedly said the same about it as Jesus. But we concede and find it likely that Lazarus really did not speak of the afterlife. Even for the simple reason that although he died, this first death for him did not mean the end of life, and thus judgment, meaning Lazarus did not begin his afterlife during the time he spent in the grave.
By death means two things: 1. the soul's separation from the body, and 2. entry into the afterlife, meaning judgment and the beginning of eternal life. With Lazarus, since God wanted to resurrect him, this time only the first occurred: the soul's separation from the body; not the second. And since Lazarus's soul, although separated from the body, did not see the afterlife, it's natural that he did not speak of the afterlife, in which he was not.
Now only a strongly speculative mind might ask: where was he then, what life did the soul separated from the body lead, if it was neither in the body nor in the afterlife? Our honest answer is: we do not know; but we know that there is nothing impossible in a soul, although separated from the body, still being here on earth, if indeed the spiritual soul needs a place, whereabouts, to exist. Perhaps, in a dreamlike, unconscious state, the time for him elapsed in the suspension of its operation until it reunited with the body as a vital principle. What would be impossible in that?
However, we by no means accept that the return of Lazarus or any dead person from the afterlife would somehow particularly benefit or reinforce belief in the afterlife. No. Jesus spoke so clearly of the afterlife, eternal life, and provided such powerful evidence for the truth of his words that a dead witness's testimony would be a trifling insignificance in comparison; and yet: how many close their eyes to Jesus's testimony? How many still doubt and deny, purely out of a lack of thought or because they don't want their frivolous lives to be troubled by the afterlife?
A risen dead person would surely be called a phantom, suggestion, hallucination, and it would not be a wonder, beside a risen dead person under no circumstances would such a vast mass of signs of objective certainty battle, as beside Jesus's revelations. Jesus himself alludes to this when, at the end of the parable of the rich man and the beggar, he has Abraham reject the rich man's request that Lazarus be sent to his brothers to "bear witness to them, that they also don't come to this place of torment." Jesus has Abraham give this answer: "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them." And he said, 'No, father Abraham! But if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead'" (Lk 16:31).
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Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?
by Sea Breeze ini guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.
and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.
but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.
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92
Ecclesiastes 9:5 -"the dead know nothing at all"
by aqwsed12345 inthe narrator of the book of ecclesiastes had very little knowledge of many things that jesus and his apostles later preached.
the author does not make statements, but only wonders (thinks, observes, often raises questions, and leaves them open).
he looked at the world based on the law of moses and found nothing but vanity, as the earthly reward promised in the law did not always accompany good deeds and earthly punishment for evil deeds.
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