Posts by clearpoison

21

What was your experience of working at an assembly hall build?

by Heartofaboy in

jw
friends

i volunteered to help out at an assembly hall build about an hour away from where i live.. i thought it would be an amazing experience & was looking forward to it very much.. when i went to reception i was asked if i had any trade skills, it was just about then i began to realise because i had no 'blue collar' trade skills i would be treated as a lesser person.........maybe even a slight nuisance.. as all the 'brothers' busily carried out their 'manly' tasks it became quite a discouraging experience because i found other 'unskilled' jw's guarded their jobs very closely & said they did not need any help.. if it was a place of christian joy i did not find.. .

.

clearpoison

I have only experience from KH and Bethelbuilds so cannot say if it was different in Assembly hall buildings, guess not. I am absolutelly not skilled in construction thing, but I had been following one nice brother earlier in hallbuilds helping with one specific area of construction. So I had experience in that and was always accepted as part of the group doing that part of construction as I could do the simpler jobs for them and they could concentrate on more important things.

There wasn't sufficient amount of work for whole time so I had lots of idle time in hall builds, there were small ad-hoc things that I was then invited from coffeetable. But I must say that in general people were in good mood in hall builds, not least for food and coffee service. Then the rules changed that you had to be in good standing and approved by local elders, that was end of it to me. On the other hand my lifesituation wouldn't let me do lots of building anyway.

But it was very different in Bethel build, most of the people there were real professionals in their area, and to be honest, not very humble in many cases. I was temporary unskilled helper there and boy those pro's could curse and look badly if you missed something they knew by heart. It was much easier to do lonely things like giving directions to cranes. What I really couldn't understand was the amount of time that was lost for changing gears for food and back. There was arrangement made for lazy types that they were served food outside the premises and they did not have to change. I needed some rest so I did the whole showering/clothing thing couple extra times each day, most of us did. I admit that I also wanted to feel the atmosphere in dining room during those weeks I worked there.

CP

30

What do you think of the pictures (both illustrations and photos) in WT literature?

by Chemical Emotions in

jw
friends

i used to really like the drawings as a kid.

the artists, i think, are usually pretty good, not so much at portraying emotions but in technical ways.

the photos always seemed silly to me.. so what do all of you think?.

clearpoison

Ok, it's good to hear that I am not alone with my bestial view

One more memory popped up when I was thinking the Paradise lost book. I was small kid before My Bible Stories era, I remember most of the children having this orange Paradise lost book with them in meetings to watch something theocratical while not listening to meetings. It had lots of pictures and therefore it was even used to teach children about God and Bible, and some JW stuff also I'm sure.

CP

30

assemblies and alcohol

by pedal power in

our dc coming up this weekend, i hated them and the only thing that kept me going ,was the reward of booze at the end of each day.my then wife,zelous judgemental pioneer, you know the type,not only droned on about my drinking, but about everyones drinking, a real barrel of laughs not.

anyway, one year we went to another dc, in newcastle, all seemed to be going well, until lunch.we went over to a hotel for lunch,i ordered my fresh orange and food, a few minutes later, the local jw,s arrived for lunch, they had all pr-ordered drinks,alcoholic drinks, and not one drink but many !!!

they were buisy getting boozed up for the afternoon session,way to go, i was about to join them, when my wife told me " dont even think about it ", anyway she was outraged, but there they were ,with thier little convention badges, men and women, young and old, getting merry, they dont even do that here in scotland, !!!.

clearpoison

In those days food was still served they even had beer available in our conventions. Not the strongest sort but still. It was legally banned from minors so I could not get it, and when I could, I preferred the stronger ones and did not "participate". But my childhood convention memories are filled with beer.

CP

30

What do you think of the pictures (both illustrations and photos) in WT literature?

by Chemical Emotions in

jw
friends

i used to really like the drawings as a kid.

the artists, i think, are usually pretty good, not so much at portraying emotions but in technical ways.

the photos always seemed silly to me.. so what do all of you think?.

clearpoison

Band- the orange book you refer to is my childhood picture favorite Paradise lost.

CP

30

What do you think of the pictures (both illustrations and photos) in WT literature?

by Chemical Emotions in

jw
friends

i used to really like the drawings as a kid.

the artists, i think, are usually pretty good, not so much at portraying emotions but in technical ways.

the photos always seemed silly to me.. so what do all of you think?.

clearpoison

In most cases they did not gave me any feelings, some drawings remind very much those you can see in Chinese and North-Korean PR (propaganda) pictures.

My favorites are somewhat harder pictures like the one in Paradise lost book where Ezekiel looks at lots of human bones. That was my absolute favorite as kid, I always returned to that picture. Also in same book the picture where Simson destroys the palace was my favorite. More recent favorite is the picture of beast with two horns in chapter 28 in revelation book. I think it's cute, it's smiling in nice way, I would almost say it's flirting with it's eyes.

Maybe I have some issues

CP

43

I have a question on the Circuit Accounts Scam thread

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

i didn't want it to get buried and i'd really like to know.. so i knew pretty much what he was saying was true, but what i don't get is how the creative accounting works.. i mean you have to show expenses on the ledger - and i mean real expenses, like the co/do expenses along with receipts.. you have actual costs for the power coming into the building.

the paper supplies and cleaning supplies.

the vacuum cleaners and mops and other sundry items, and you have to have receipts for all that.. i also know that when you made a "donation" it was off the books at the circuit level as far as accounts were concerned.. but how is money not being accounted for?.

clearpoison

I don't think this is really question about scam in legalistic accounting sort of type. But it could very well count as moral scam.

As far as I understand the circuit or district will actually never see the true costs of assembly hall, they just buy services (facilities for convention) from it or in question about 3rd party facilities they are kind of sub-renter of organisation. Again without knowing what is the true cost. As any good organisation or firm selling services assembly hall/organisation will include certain amount of profit in their offer. Offer seems to be based on attendant fee. In this case circuit/district never takes competing offers and always accepts what is proposed. So before the convention starts circuit/district has agreed to pay certain amount of money (pre-deficit), and organisation is already at this point due for profit from forthcoming convention. I guess they will also calculate some sort of fee for released litterature too.

At conveniently enough stage of convention the financial status for this specific convention (not for assembly hall in general or 3rd party facility) is announced, donations in convention are calculated as circuits/districts income and not yet as part of the fund for worldwide work. If in ideal case the story at this stage shows that convention costs (again not true costs but the offered attendee fees) are not yet met, this should lead to financial activity around donation boxes, as for sure friends do not want to leave their circuit in deficit.

If everything works as expected, the donations will cover the conventions costs (remember not the actual costs but the offered rate), and the surplus can then be donated to organisation for worldwide work. So, what is the income of the organisation, firstly the profit calculated in attendee fee compared to true costs of running the assembly hall or 3rd party facility. On top of that they will receive the surplus donation.

What if everything was based on open books principle without profit margin? Well the convention cost would drop for circuits/districts. It could in worst case mean that the donations would in very early stage cover for the true costs, and announcing to public that the convention is already in surplus would at least in some cases keep the wallets closed, "ok, convention got clear papers, I can then donate back home to boxes in Kingdom Hall, it's much simpler that way". Do you think some of potential donors would not remember this "promise" when they got back home?

This is not scam for sure, this is exactly how business-world works, every value adding actor wants/needs to add their profit in calculation. What might be morally scam is that this pre-defined profit is not openly declared, I think most of the people there thinks that announced cost must be about the true cost based on experience from earlier conventions.

I do not know if my speculation is worth a wooden penny but this is my understanding of the concept here. This is not the only case where profit is present in hidden form, it was there already when the books and mags were sold.

CP

10

DC Brownie Points: Attend Twice. Ever do that?

by Open mind in

jw
friends

a recent post i made on watchman duty reminded me of something that a few uber-righteous jws would do.

work in volunteer service at your own assigned district convention, but since you missed so much of the program, re-attend the whole thing again on another weekend and just "focus on the program".

i remember one super self-righteous guy talking me into going back to re-attend a saturday once.

clearpoison

Did this quite often, but to be totally honest with you not in any manner to compensate the missed time due voluntary work.

It was for obvious reasons and there was always secret parties for saturday night.

CP

36

What was your volunteer job(s) at DCs?

by mummatron in

seeing as it's that time of year i've been reminiscing.

i used to volunteer as i really struggled to sit still all day, even with all the note-taking and sitting next to the deaf loop system and watching the bsl interpreter to try and learn a bit of bsl.. i have.... counted and voided food tokenspacked fruit bags at a sandwich stallcleaned the stadium at opening and closingcleaned and attended ladies toiletsmanned (or should that be womanned?!

lol) contribution boxeswhat did you do?.

clearpoison

Forgot one

- Back-stage attendant, doing the mikes and chairs for sessions.

CP

36

What was your volunteer job(s) at DCs?

by mummatron in

seeing as it's that time of year i've been reminiscing.

i used to volunteer as i really struggled to sit still all day, even with all the note-taking and sitting next to the deaf loop system and watching the bsl interpreter to try and learn a bit of bsl.. i have.... counted and voided food tokenspacked fruit bags at a sandwich stallcleaned the stadium at opening and closingcleaned and attended ladies toiletsmanned (or should that be womanned?!

lol) contribution boxeswhat did you do?.

clearpoison

Hmm, let's see

- Bakery (my favorite until I was told I'm expected to pay for the restbites as for ok ones)

- Taking care of tools depot (my specialty was perfect order, I got mad if someone just left or took something without registering it)

- Section servant and counting participants (this was special as you got double special label under your badge, volunteer and public servant or whatever it is called. It was great also otherwise, you had valid reason to have binoculars for scanning your section, no way, some nice sisters.)

- Selling candy and ice-cream (this was my job for many years, good part being that you could buy those last good candies before they were sold-out)

- Collecting money from donation boxes

I was always so busy in Gods work that I never had time to participate in cleaning job, there you have it if you wonder my motivation. Actually I was so busy that I often missed the good stuff being told from podium. No wonder I became what I am.

CP

40

FADERS: How determined are you?

by VampireDCLXV in

jw
friends

after being here on jwn for a while, one does see a spectrum of sorts.

there are people here in various stages of their exit from their lives as jws.

some are full fledged kh and fs attendees whom we call "the conscious class".

clearpoison

So I ask you faders: how determined are you to never return to life as a JW?

For me it's not about determination, it would just feel wrong for me based on my current understanding

Do you still miss old JW "friends"?

Friends? Those few I had closer relationsship still wouldn't count as friends, so no.

Do you miss the company of JW relatives?

It has never been endangered, we have had as long as I remember a habit of keeping familyties in one place and religious differences in another.

Do even the smallest of thoughts that maybe, just maybe, the JWs are right about some things, still haunt the darkest corners of you mind?

It really do not matter if they are right or not, I do not care in any manner about the thruthfulness of their teaching. My issues are purely personal and are not debendant JW's being right or wrong.

Do you still have the occasional nightmare about dying during the big A?

If JW's are right that is what is going to happen to me (unless I die other kind of unnatural death before), if not I will die in another way. So no nightmares there it's one optional reality for me.

Lingering doubts might be sabotaging you. The sooner you shed your doubts about yourself and the reasons your leaving, the sooner you can heal.

I agree, I had fortunatelly years to come to my personal conclusion. In my opinion as long as you do the right thing for yourself, is it being hardcore/softcore witness or totally something else, you must feel comfortable with the decision you made.

So I ask faders here again: how far along are you in your exit and are you doubting yourself?

Exiting or staying is totally equal to me, as whatever happens I do not want to enter the paradise as it is described.

CP