irondork

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Posts by irondork

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  5

  O.C. man upset with church teachings convicted of hate crime

  by behemot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  an orange county man charged with lighting fires at an irvine church because he was disgruntled about its teachings against masturbation was convicted tuesday of committing hate-crime arson, authorities said.. izad chavoshan, 32, who lives in huntington beach, set trash cans on fire in front of the orange county church of christ on three separate occasions in october 2009, prosecutors said.. chavoshan was a former church member who disagreed with the church's teachings against masturbation, according to the orange county district attorney's office.. chavoshan pleaded guilty to three felony counts of arson, one felony count of attempted arson and a hate-crime sentencing enhancement.

  he has a prior strike conviction for criminal threats in 1998 and faces a sentence ranging from probation to up to 20 years in state prison, the district attorney's office said.. he is scheduled to be sentenced aug. 19 at the santa ana courthouse.. source: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/08/oc-man-convicted-church-masturbation-hate-crime.html.

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  irondork

  Hmm... I'm guessing he's a masturbator.
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  49

  Who wrote the May 22, 1969 Awake article "What Future for the Young"?

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know who wrote the may 22, 1969 awake!

  article, "what future for the young?"?.

  i wonder if they still are at bethel.. .

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  irondork

  serenitynow: I believe the powers that be in NY should be in jail. They have ruined so many lives.

  But it was just an oversight! They were eager for the end to come and just got ahead of themselves. Everyone makes mistakes. Besides, they're sorry. They feel bad! They have apologized again and again and...

  ... oh, nevermind!
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  13

  Letter Regarding Discussing Scriptural Matters With Disfellowshipped Ones

  by Bangalore in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  letter regarding discussing scriptural matters with disfellowshipped ones.. .

  bangalore.

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  irondork

  I don't know what makes me weep more:

  That people who disassociated themselves for no longer believing in the church and people who were disfellowshipped for extremely benign things are being cast in the same lot with "with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner" (1 Cor 5:11) or the "anti-christ" ( 2 John)...

  OR

  That so many people fall for the reasoning on these scriptures to shun innocent people and destroy lives, families, etc... OR That I used to be one of the rank and file who genuinely believed and would have defended that policy and mindset to my death and participated in the abuse of others in accordance with my programing.
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  3

  Formal vs Informal DA

  by irondork in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread, morbidzbaby said: .

  "not interested" isn't really a df'ing thing so much as a da'ing in absentia (sort of the same, regardless, because of the way it's announced).

  but you didn't send it to an elder... just a friend.. i dunno, it's kind of a gray area, imo.

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  irondork

  In another thread, Morbidzbaby said:

  "Not interested" isn't really a DF'ing thing so much as a DA'ing in absentia (sort of the same, regardless, because of the way it's announced). But you didn't send it to an elder... Just a friend.

  I dunno, it's kind of a gray area, IMO. I've told my family I don't want it and I'm not interested... Not interested could simply mean "Not interested right NOW" in their eyes.

  Curious. During the time when I was still kinda going to meetings but had pretty much made up my mind that I was finished with the WTS, my mother happened to have a heart attack. A few days later I got an email from the cong. secretary informing me that Sister (my mother) was in the hospital, etc, etc... I was on his mailing list.

  I was feeling particularly fed up that day so I shot an email back to him telling him to remove me from his mailing list "and while you're at it, remove me from the membership files of your church, inform the royalty of Brooklyn and announce it publicly." He sent a response asking me if I was serious and offered to meet with me. "However, if this is your final decision on the matter, please send a letter in." - or something to that effect.

  I never responded to him for almost a year, during which time I was still kinda-sorta still attending meetings. (I felt there was still SOME spiritual food to be had there.) Also, during this period, no one (aside from the rank and file who didn't know what was going on) approached me to talk out what was troubling me or how to help. Besides, the elders already knew I was fed up with the harsh anti-gay slant of the organization.

  Finally, after having to walk out of too many meetings and a Circuit Assembly because of the anti-gay crap, I packed it up and sent in a formal letter of disassociation.

  THEN it got announced.

  Why this gray area? I hear of people getting DA or DF for the simplest things including just stating that they are no longer interested or that they disagree with this or that. They KNEW I didn't agree with the anti-gay doctrines when they reinstated me 2+ years earlier. I told them to their face in a committee meeting. Why did I have to go through such a formality to get out?

  At this point the answer doesn't really matter. I'm just curious.
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  35

  What Is It That Really Troubles the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  by orangefatcat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well i think what worries them the most is that more and more witnesses are becoming free thinkers and that is troubling them, it worries them that thinking freely will cause them to seek answers elsewhere and that is the last thing the gb wants.

  they have pulled the reins so tight now how much tighter can they pull before many witnesss crack under their yokes.

  what is your thoughts on this matter.. .

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  irondork

  Black Sheep: Think about that before you write that DA letter.

  Dang! I have thought of that so many times since I officially DA last month. I was just so desperate to escape with what little sanity I had left... I was'nt able to focus clearly on the larger picture.
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  16

  587 B.C.E vs 607 B.C.E

  by fade_away in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the latest oct. watchtower has an article that seems to be controversial amongst us "apostates.

  " it's a long complicated article with tons of confusing names and dates, but in the end it sums it up and says:.

  "to sum up: the bible clearly states that there was an exile of 70 years.

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  irondork

  fade_away: Really, those two lines of evidence hardly provide enough proof to overturn the Bible’s chronology."

  My question is: Is there any way to debunk their "strong evidence" of ...

  I can read evidnce on both sides of this issue all day long and I would still not be in a position of authority to make a decision regarding the facts of the matter. At the end of the day, I do golf course irrigation for a living. I remain only an authority about golf course irrigation.

  If I were to quit my job, return to school and become an historian / archeologist, then I might venture an opinion. That's not going to happen.

  What I can do is examine the historical record associated with the WTS statements of "facts" regarding indisputable bible chronology.

  Suddenly, I'm a genius!
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  38

  Empathizing with homosexual struggles as a hertosexual

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i was a bible fundamentalist jehovah's witness it was easy for me to dismiss homosexuality as a sin and move onto the next, more interesting, topic.

  it is much more complicated than that for me at this point in my life.. i think about it this way:.

  what if i, a heterosexual, were raised in a community where everybody was homosexual and heterosexuality had a harsh taboo attached to it.

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  irondork

  Snoozy: That was just a disgusting example to use. Couldn't you think of something a little more classier?

  Yea! Let's not look at it directly in the eye.
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  38

  Empathizing with homosexual struggles as a hertosexual

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i was a bible fundamentalist jehovah's witness it was easy for me to dismiss homosexuality as a sin and move onto the next, more interesting, topic.

  it is much more complicated than that for me at this point in my life.. i think about it this way:.

  what if i, a heterosexual, were raised in a community where everybody was homosexual and heterosexuality had a harsh taboo attached to it.

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  irondork

  For those wondering how gay people reconcile homosexuality with the bible:

  http://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php
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  38

  Empathizing with homosexual struggles as a hertosexual

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i was a bible fundamentalist jehovah's witness it was easy for me to dismiss homosexuality as a sin and move onto the next, more interesting, topic.

  it is much more complicated than that for me at this point in my life.. i think about it this way:.

  what if i, a heterosexual, were raised in a community where everybody was homosexual and heterosexuality had a harsh taboo attached to it.

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  irondork

  Snoozy: So you're saying a person can be "Talked" into becoming gay/ lesbian?

  No. You can talk me into dying my hair red but that doesn't make me a red-head. It makes me a brunette with his hair dyed red.

  For me it was a matter of keeping the dirty little secret of my dirty little self. If anyone found out, I was finished. That's what happened. I was disfellowshipped, kicked out of the house... you know the story.

  I'm fortunate though. For me, the idea of ever marrying a woman for the sake of hiding myself never entered my mind. I knew I just couldn't. But so many gays have been convinced that Jehovah hates the way they are or were fearful of the consequences of exposure that the chose to marry the opposite sex. That adds a whole new element of "ick" to what gay people have had to go through.

  Can you imagine, as a straight male, swallowing load after load of your husbands cum just so the other people will like you?

  Can you imagine doing that for many years and then finding out the church and the people who made you feel you had to was a lie?

  Like I said, I never had to endure that. But so many have.
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  39

  Refuting Franz's Crisis of Conscience

  by irondork in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm about halfway through crisis of conscience.

  some pretty extraordinary stuff in there.. wondering, aside from telling people not to read "apostate material", has there been any official denial or refutation of the books contents by the watchtower society, official or otherwise?.

  side note: franz is a wonderful writer, if a bit repetitive in places.

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  irondork

  I'm about halfway through Crisis of Conscience. Some pretty extraordinary stuff in there.

  Wondering, aside from telling people not to read "apostate material", has there been any official denial or refutation of the books contents by the Watchtower society, official or otherwise?

  Side note: Franz is a wonderful writer, if a bit repetitive in places. Upside, you walk away with a thorough understanding of where his head is.