Nobleheart

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Posts by Nobleheart

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  225

  A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."

  by InterestedOne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.

  mistakes will happen.

  concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?

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  Nobleheart

  Great post # 1854 and question SBC! The argument is unchallengeable, I don't know if you'll get any feedback though...
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  225

  A concerned JW wrote "mistakes will happen."

  by InterestedOne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.

  mistakes will happen.

  concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?

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  Nobleheart

  Promoting a certain date which eventually turns out wrong is one thing.

  Giving medical advice which can seriously put another human being's health and life in danger is another... I have no idea how a JW can reconcile the statements below from WT publications:

  "Vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood."

  "Sustaining one's life by means of the body or part of the body of another human ... would be cannibalism, a practice abhorrent to all civilized people."

  The sad fact is the Society has blood on its hands when these medical practices were considered a "direct violation" of God's laws. The Bible never mentions organ transplants or vaccines. So why endanger someone's life by "going beyond what's written"?

  The arbitrary stance for blood transfusions just shows these rules aren't scriptural. There's no mention of blood fractions in the Bible so they're apparently okay now. The Bible doesn't mention plasma, WBC, RBC, platelets either...why aren't these okay?

  Has the Watchtower Society ever assumed responsibility for these "mistakes"? I'm talking specifically about wacky medical advice and lost lives.
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  66

  The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth - Matt 5:5 anyone?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  on another thread concernedjw used an interesting quote from jesus at matt 5:5 'the meek shall inherit the earth.

  ' fair comment i'd say.

  but jesus didn't say 'paradise' earth.. now i know some of you don't believe in the bible (which i respect), and i'm not after a debate.. what i'm interested to hear is how you would refyte that jesus was not talking about a jw 'paradise earth'.

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  Nobleheart

  Found some quotes, from this forum actually on earlier threads.

  **w00 9/1 p. 18 "The Times of Restoration" Are at Hand!***

  An extensive campaign was undertaken to teach people of all nations to observe the things Christ had commanded his followers to do. (Matthew 28:20) How refreshing it was to see some who had formerly displayed animal-like characteristics change their outlook! They stripped off the old personality, which produces such traits as "anger," "abusive speech," and "obscene talk," and put on the new personality, "which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of [God] who created it." In a spiritual sense, the words of the prophet Isaiah are being fulfilled even now: "The wolf [a person who formerly displayed wolflike characteristics] will actually reside for a while with the male lamb [a person manifesting a meek disposition], and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together."—Colossians 3:8-10; Isaiah 11:6, 9.

  This is I think from Isaiah's Prophecy book. (on the actual Isaiah 11 passage)

  Do these words not touch the heart? Notice that the peace described here results from the knowledge of Jehovah. Hence, more is involved than mere safety from wild animals. The knowledge of Jehovah will not change animals, but it will affect people. Neither on the way home nor in their restored land will the Israelites need to fear wild beasts or beastlike men.—Ezra 8:21, 22; Isaiah 35:8-10; 65:25.

  This prophecy, however, has a larger fulfillment... "Accurate knowledge," the knowledge of Jehovah, has changed personalities. (Colossians 3:9, 10) Formerly violent people have become peaceable. (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:17-24) These developments have now affected millions because Isaiah’s prophecy has come to include a rapidly increasing number of Christians with an earthly hope. (Psalm 37:29; Isaiah 60:22) These have learned to look to the time when the whole earth will be restored as a secure, peaceful paradise, according to God’s original purpose.—Matthew 6:9, 10; 2 Peter 3:13.

  Both these quotes show the animals mentioned in Isaiah 11 are referring to humans with animal-like characteristics, being changed due to accurate knowledge.
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  66

  The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth - Matt 5:5 anyone?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  on another thread concernedjw used an interesting quote from jesus at matt 5:5 'the meek shall inherit the earth.

  ' fair comment i'd say.

  but jesus didn't say 'paradise' earth.. now i know some of you don't believe in the bible (which i respect), and i'm not after a debate.. what i'm interested to hear is how you would refyte that jesus was not talking about a jw 'paradise earth'.

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  Nobleheart

  @ Punkofnice

  My idea on Isaiah 11 is this. I don't think it's referring to actual herbivores and carnivores both feeding on grass. The passage says " They will neither harm nor destroy.. for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD."

  Why are 'they"? I don't think animals (wolf, lamb, lion, etc), or even the infant, can in fact be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.

  I think the passage is referring to people's attitudes being changed due to their knowledge of the good news and the HS working on them inwardly (i.e. from rebellious to meek). As a result, there shall be great peace and quiet in the Kingdom of God.

  I'm pretty sure the WT itself gives a similar explanation. (Can't find the quotes right now) They also provide the other explanation that these animals will change their diet and be a part of the paradise scenery.

  The Bible does talk about hope of life in a new heavens and new earth in 2 Peter and Revelation. We don't know the details of that yet, except that God will be with manking and dwell with them forever. (Rev 21)
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  66

  The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth - Matt 5:5 anyone?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  on another thread concernedjw used an interesting quote from jesus at matt 5:5 'the meek shall inherit the earth.

  ' fair comment i'd say.

  but jesus didn't say 'paradise' earth.. now i know some of you don't believe in the bible (which i respect), and i'm not after a debate.. what i'm interested to hear is how you would refyte that jesus was not talking about a jw 'paradise earth'.

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  Nobleheart

  @ ProdigalSon.

  I totally understand. That was a very attractive idea for me too, along with never growing old and dying... I'm sure for others as well.
• 
  66

  The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth - Matt 5:5 anyone?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  on another thread concernedjw used an interesting quote from jesus at matt 5:5 'the meek shall inherit the earth.

  ' fair comment i'd say.

  but jesus didn't say 'paradise' earth.. now i know some of you don't believe in the bible (which i respect), and i'm not after a debate.. what i'm interested to hear is how you would refyte that jesus was not talking about a jw 'paradise earth'.

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  Nobleheart

  The term "Paradise earth" never appears in the Bible. The word ‘paradise’ is used 3 times in the NT. Luke 23:43, 2 Cor 12:2-4, Rev 2:5-7.

  Revelation 2:7 "Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."

  The WT identifies this as heaven in Insight on the Scriptures, Vol 2, p 576. “ Since other promises given in this section of Revelation to such conquering ones clearly relate to their gaining a heavenly inheritance it seems evident that "the paradise of God" in this case is a heavenly one."

  The second scripture in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, which clarifies by itself that paradise = third heaven.

  The only scripture left is Luke 23:43. The Watchtower attempts to explain that Luke refers to an earthly paradise.

  Watchtower 1983 October 15 p.4 Does the Bible Promise and Earthly Paradise "To such ones who had the hope of being received into heaven, Christ promised: "To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." (Revelation 2:7; John 16:33; 1 John 5:4) This figurative "paradise of God" is in the invisible heavens. However, is it correct to assume that heaven is the only paradise set before all of Jesus' followers? Since the sympathetic evildoer did not conquer the world by pursuing a course of faithfulness to God but was justly being put to death for his wicked deeds, what Paradise did Christ promise him? Indeed, the Bible does promise an earthly Paradise!"

  The quoted article shows that the Revelation reference to paradise is heavenly and provides no evidence that Luke 23 refers to earth. The Watchtower reasoning given is simply that it supports their doctrine. Jesus specifically states that the man on the cross will be "with him" so it follows that this would be in heaven.
  
  Also, all the scriptures that mention the resurrection in the NT are talking about heaven. ( i.e. Matthew 6:20-21, John 14:2-4 Romans 6:3,5, 1 Corinthians 15:42-50, 2 Corinthians 5:6-8)

  Paul mentioned the “hope of the resurrection”, which he himself entertained. His hope was to be resurrected in heaven. John 5:28, 29 doesn’t specify that the resurrection will take place on earth either, rather that those in the tombs would ‘hear Jesus’ voice and come out’. They don’t literally come out of the tombs; even JWs say God will recreate them from memory.

  Isaiah and Psalms mention texts describing perfect living conditions, like Psalm 37 and Isaiah 65. They are Jewish restoration prophecies for their deliverance from Babylon.

  "The initial fulfillment of Isaiah 65:17-19 involved the ancient Jews who, as Isaiah accurately predicted, did return to their homeland, where they reestablished pure worship." Watchtower 2000 April 15 p.10

  Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 pp.381-382 "This prophecy was initially fulfilled in 537 B.C.E. when the Jewish remnant was restored to Jerusalem"

  Isaiah 65 states that there will continue to be children and these blessed Israelites will fulfill their days, grow old and die, certainly not possible in the everlasting paradise the Watchtower promises.

  These restoration prophecies can’t be used to prove a paradise on earth because: there is no mention of a secondary application, they mention that people will grow old and die, they discuss a new heavens and new earth.

  The Bible mentions the new heavens and new earth as a future hope for all believers in 2 Peter 3, Rev 21. Some think there will be a new earth created after Christ’s reign. Others think that God’s purpose and its fulfillment aren’t revealed yet.
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  34

  Anniversary of my mums death....the JW robbed me of time with her and I cant forgive them.

  by Pams girl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its been 2 years.

  she was lying in intensive care (i didnt know she only had a few days left)...... building up to the bloody convention in cardiff millenium stadium.

  yap yap yap we can take you yap yap, you need to be there yap yap, oh my head was all over the place.

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  Nobleheart

  Sorry to hear that Paula.

  Your great love for your mum is clear and I'm sure she wouldn't want you to keep guilting yourself over this.

  I hope you're feeling better. I send you a hug.
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  160

  I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

  by PenelopePaige in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

  but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

  i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

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  Nobleheart

  I realize I'm late on this thread.

  @ Penelope I've sent you a pm.
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  22

  My brand new Greek Bible!

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just received my brand new greek bible:.

  = the holy scriptures - new world translation.

  why bother?

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  Nobleheart

  Thank you Wonderment!
• 
  22

  My brand new Greek Bible!

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just received my brand new greek bible:.

  = the holy scriptures - new world translation.

  why bother?

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  Nobleheart

  Good for you for your new addition. I just have a question since I don't have access to a Greek NWT.

  You said that "t he Kingdom Interlinear Greek NT is translated directly from the Wescott and Hort Greek Text."

  How does John 8:58 reads into the Greek NWT? What about the Greek KIT?

  I ask because I saw a video months ago that said the Greek NWT used a different expression in that passage, instead of 'ego eimi' found in the original text. I looked for it, but unfortunately I'm unable to find it now.

  Your help would be appreciated.