Posts by Retrovirus

4

The believing spouse

by Retrovirus in

jw
friends

in another thread black sheep said.

when we first find out that the wt is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the wt gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.. this gave me another little gimpse into life "inside".

so, to better understand my jw friends, i try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.. imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.. imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which i must loyally anticipate.. imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing i must cling to what i've been taught, or anger jehovah.

Retrovirus

In another thread Black Sheep said

When we first find out that the WT is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the WT gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, Satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.

This gave me another little gimpse into life "inside". So, to better understand my jw friends, I try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.

Imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.

Imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which I must loyally anticipate.

Imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing I must cling to what I've been taught, or anger Jehovah. I'm even bloodguilty if I cannot defend what I believe, because I would "stumble" the enquirer.

Imagine going out in service, wearing the face of a member of the happiest people on earth.

Is it like this, or am I having a nightmare?

Retro

40

Pioneers studying with people in the nursing homes.

by life is to short in

jw
friends

is this a trend that is going on.

i live on the west coast and the po's or cobe's wife has at least one study if not more with a old lady who is totally mentally gone.

she has no clue what is going on.

Retrovirus

Thanks, Razziel,

Great insight. So at some level all or nearly all jws disbelieve the wt line! And of course they can't share this with someone they're hoping to bring into the fold.

It must be so hard to remain a "good" jw these days.

Retro

40

Pioneers studying with people in the nursing homes.

by life is to short in

jw
friends

is this a trend that is going on.

i live on the west coast and the po's or cobe's wife has at least one study if not more with a old lady who is totally mentally gone.

she has no clue what is going on.

Retrovirus

But. . .

My jw ladies told me to have the "earthly hope" you had to be well advanced in studies, going out in service etc., if not actually baptised.

If jw people are sharing time and uplifting stories with these old folks, that's charitable. They cannot expect that they will reach this level of "truth" so how can they count the time?

Confused Retro

39

Advice for a non-witness dealing with a fiance's witness family

by JAG913 in

jw
friends

my name is jaime and i'm here because my fiance recommended this site.

i am not, nor will i ever be, a jehovah's witness.

i strongly believe it is a cult, but i also am respectful of the choice people make to associate themselves within the witness "world.

Retrovirus

Razziel, great post, thank for making me think about a situation I've been avoiding.

At each step of the way I could have said "F%uck it!", blown up on them, and walked away never to speak to them again. I do have the self-esteem and self-confidence to do that.

In fact you have shown much more self confidence than it would take to do that.

Retro

18

What makes people ok with shunning?

by Butterflyleia85 in

it almost seems easy to some... or like a weird funny feeling like they are doing something wrong if they go against something inside of them and actually speak to marked (people they are told to shun) people.. (sorry to be bias in this but only exaggerate circumstances to make my point).

jehovah's witness for one are known to shun disfellowshipped members.. but also there is:.

popular kids at schools who shun unpopular kids at school.. rich people who ignore poor people.. some whites that are still racest shun black and vs.. some older proper/religious ones with high moral standards shunn or at least look down one the rebels.. ...seriously does it make life easier for them or something?.

Retrovirus

Interesting topic, and Aude Sapere, thanks for some great thoughts.

...Seriously does it make life easier for them or something?

I was never a jw, but grew up in a family where one parent "shunned" whoever was under displeasure. This meant you were ignored at mealtimes, you could get a box on the ear for not saying "good morning", but would be ignored if you did say it. All of us kids learned the importance of being in favour quickly and early. If that meant shunning a brother or sister, rather them than me. . .

Don't think that it was ever right according to my conscience. But someone insecure enough doesn't trust their own conscience over an authority figure, and/or the need to belong.

What would make them change?

Growing up and being in different environments made me change. It doesn't seem to work for everyone at the same pace.

And most importantly when is it right to shun or is it really right at all?

I cannot think of any circumstances where shunning is the best solution. Even when pushed for time and faced with a bore, there are more courteous ways of handling the situation.

There's also an element of self-distrust, or self-dislike, externalised: "I may not be all that good, but s/he's worse!"

Retro

8

Where are all the German posters in this forum?

by ThomasCovenant in

jw
friends

according to 'bigboards' there are more visitors to this site from germany than from the uk, canada and australia combined.

you'd never think it from the posters.

don't know how accurate the stats are though.. http://www.big-boards.com/board/323/ .

Retrovirus

Hi, if any German lurkers want a bit of help with translation, please PM me!

Retro

60

How many here have never been one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Spade in

how many here have never been one of jehovah's witnesses?

there seems to be a common denominator of former witnesses who accuse the watchtower society of being a false organization.

what they crave is acknowledgment that their way is the best way.

Retrovirus

Well good. That means there's actually some point in posting here

Then perhaps you could address the rest of my post?

Retro

60

How many here have never been one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Spade in

how many here have never been one of jehovah's witnesses?

there seems to be a common denominator of former witnesses who accuse the watchtower society of being a false organization.

what they crave is acknowledgment that their way is the best way.

Retrovirus

Spade,

How many here have never been one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

That would be me. Although the rest of your post addresses ex-jws.

They all claim how wonderful it is that they have escaped the “lies” of the Watchtower society by using foul language, derogatory terms and sexual innuendos with each other.

No more foul language and innuendo than my fellow office workers, or indeed most people trying to avoid boring the audience.

have these so called “enlightened” individuals found something better? Have they found the truth?

IMHO, "truth" is subjective, and changes over time for many individuals, As indeed the Watchtower's "truth" changes over time.

The statistics here are hypothetical but anyone would get the point and why those with a commitment to intellectual integrity, objectivity and honest debate would find the variety of conflicting doctrines disconcerting

That is so Watchtower, loaded language (integrity, objectivity, honest) and then defining what people with these qualities would

'find". It is neither honest nor objective to write stuff like this without supporting it.

Retro

16

"Apostates main topic is always Disfellowshipping! And I agree with the arrangement 100%"

by sabastious in

there are a lot of witnesses that have examined the df'ing arrangement and deem it worthy to be the main force of discipline for god's earthly organization.

the prodfers as i just named them, are advovates of the policy and believe that it churns out, once the offender returns through the system in place, very "spiritual" people.. think about this process and figure out what the desired result the originator of the policy was:.

the subject is acused of a "high end sin" (requires the quantification of sin).if subject has been viewed by two or more witnesses a private hearing is formed with a panel of three elders.the subject is interogated by the panel of elders and information is gathered using policies from a secret elder handbook.

Retrovirus

The requirement to attend meetings, but like a ghost; be ignored by all your former "friends" - appals me.

I know children can be cruel, but how, how can "mature Christian" adults do this to another? Surely, it demonstrates repentance that the DF'd person attends the meeting? How could anyone justify making it a torture session?

16

"Apostates main topic is always Disfellowshipping! And I agree with the arrangement 100%"

by sabastious in

there are a lot of witnesses that have examined the df'ing arrangement and deem it worthy to be the main force of discipline for god's earthly organization.

the prodfers as i just named them, are advovates of the policy and believe that it churns out, once the offender returns through the system in place, very "spiritual" people.. think about this process and figure out what the desired result the originator of the policy was:.

the subject is acused of a "high end sin" (requires the quantification of sin).if subject has been viewed by two or more witnesses a private hearing is formed with a panel of three elders.the subject is interogated by the panel of elders and information is gathered using policies from a secret elder handbook.

Retrovirus

Perhaps I missed it, but what about the requirement for a DF'd person to attend meetings? While being shunned all the time.

Retro