Retrovirus

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Posts by Retrovirus

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  24

  JW FOOL COMMENTS ON WHY I'TS NOT A CULT !

  by Hairyhegoat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this guy must be mad.

  please read and take his comments apart.!.

  how jehovah's witnesses differ from cultsby john w. scottjohn w. scott.

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  Retrovirus

  A few more points: Vague terms such as "a confusing definition for many" and poisoning the well "religious opposers" are typical of wt publications. Using a single book as a basis for cult definition is simply an appeal to authority. So para 1, effectively that it is not a cult because there are no secret stages, proves nothing. That said, there are secrest, such as the Elders manual. Para 2, the freedom to choose work has been addressed; also discouraging higher education further restricts freedom of career. then this gem: "to what extent one wishes to associate with family who are not Jehovah's Witnesses" is a masterful evasion of outright lying, yet conveying a false impression. Who would think that shunning a family member who had left the religion was mandatory to remain in good standing? "Witnesses are not required to or encouraged to consult with elders or with anyone, before or when making personal decisions in life" Really? What if such a decision involves something defined as sinful or apostate? Also does not mention that if a jw is aware that another is pursuing such a course they must plead with them to consult an elder, or dob them in. para3 "Witnesses are not encouraged to leave their mates who may not be Jehovah's Witnesses, but to stay with them and work hard towards a good marriage" Superficially true, yet the pressure to influence the unbelieving mate and any children is relentless. I've seen it. There's plenty more, but no more time. As a non-jw I may be wrong on some or more; please let me know if I am. Retro
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  39

  Is it normal to quote without naming the source like WT does?

  by InterestedOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am noticing here and there that the wt literature will say things like "one bible dictionary says ..." or "one scholar says ..." and then proceed with a quotation.

  my immediate reaction is to ask myself why they didn't provide the specific source of the quote - author, publication, page #, etc.

  so i am wondering, do other magazines do this?

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  Retrovirus

  Quendi wrote

  The Bethelites told me I should make my concerns known to the Society.

  That's what my jw ladies told me also. Are jws taught to give that answer? But in fairness, they accepted that they had some responsibility for the veracity of material they were presenting as "truth".

  Retro
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  23

  Feb.20 WT Study: "Reap Blessings Through God's Spirit-Guided King!

  by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  during the brain-numbing lesson this week, i looked ahead at the article for next week.

  it's hard to get past the title alone:.

  reap blessings through god's spirit-guided king!.

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  Retrovirus

  As an outsider, what strikes me is it's always getting, reaping, blessings, eternal life etc.

  Does anyone want to do God's will just for love? When I ask my jw ladies they quickly say yes, of course, just because we love Jehovah.

  And the next sentence they ask why wouldn't I want to live in Paradise.

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  217

  Feb. 15th WT - WT Society says DFed Ones are Lawless- Just Like Demons

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would assume that some or a good number of us here as normal humans in this society - consider " lawless " actions to include murder , robbery, extortion, rape, child abuse, war , terrorism, etc.

  the wt society has their own definition of what's considered " lawless ".

  anything that's considered a disfellowshipping offense in the jehovah's witnesses is now considered " lawless ".

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  Retrovirus

  @DJeggnog quotes LouBelle as saying:

  The screws are tightening even more on the rank and file who unfortunately cannot or do not have the desire to think for themselves. They will eat this [drivel] with renewed vigor I'm sure and will thank the GB for sending food at the proper time. My aunt is going through a tough time at the moment. Her 2 sons are staunch JW's and have [threatened] to go to the elders and "tell on her" (she's been questioning, researching and visiting other churches)

  and replies:

  So let me get this straight: This woman's two sons are trying to get their mother, your aunt, disfellowshipped so that they can shun her. Is this what you are saying? And if their "plan" should turn out to be successful, because she's an apostate and she knowingly perverts the scriptures in any way, this will prove that "the rank and file .. cannot or do not have the desire to think for themselves"? You also said "that they have to go to such lengths to keep speaking freely":

  (my bolding)

  This deliberate distortion is a form of lying and typical of much that I read in WT publications.

  And, yes, it is on topic - studying the Bible and questioning or reaerching is actually recommended in the Bible itself. It is no sin, not lawlessness and absolutely no reason to remotely consider cutting off contact with a person.

  Retro
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  82

  3/15 WT " Do Not Deceive Yourself "- WT's Excuses for No Armageddon

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with the new " overlap generation " theory that the wt society is pushing onto rank and file jehovah's witnesses since last year this article i found really heavy hitting in the jw version of the wt.

  the wt society is leaking oil in that confidence is low among jw's in not really buying into the " generation overlap " theory as many younger jw's are exiting the organization.

  so what better way to try reeling members back in by giving them an article entitled " do not deceive yourself with false reasoning " !

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  Retrovirus

  par 6 page 3..... 'However, then you receive word that your visitors are delayed.'

  And that's where the analogy becomes deceitful. Someone advised that the guests were coming. Nobody said they would be delayed, or for how long. They just havn't arrived.

  If I were a believer, I'd be very annoyed with Someone.

  Retro
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  4

  The believing spouse

  by Retrovirus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in another thread black sheep said.

  when we first find out that the wt is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the wt gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.. this gave me another little gimpse into life "inside".

  so, to better understand my jw friends, i try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.. imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.. imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which i must loyally anticipate.. imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing i must cling to what i've been taught, or anger jehovah.

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  Retrovirus

  NewChapter, thank you for your reply, exactly what I was trying to understand.

  It depends on your mindset at the time

  That makes sense. Even in a doomed relationship, or in a dysfunctional family, there are times of peace and happiness.

  my daughter lived with father, and I didn't push the religion on her

  You must be very glad of this now! My ex-SIL did try, but the children didn't "take" to the wt; my brother always insisted on them having a choice. Because of the black and white mentality of the wt, it made for a very difficult marriage, although both tried hard to maintain it.

  My ex told me he wanted nothing to do with the KH because I was such a bad JW it had turned him off

  Your ex sounds pretty mean! Surely there are better ways to choose a faith than arbitrarily measure someone's performance. That said, I can be seriously impressed by a person who lives their spiritual values.

  I actually liked service

  You are like my jw friends in this; they target new immigrants and homeless people. I wouldn't doubt that some would be better off as jws than as they are now, at least temporarily. If they failed to keep the rules and were DF'd, they'd probably be worse off.

  I thought my unhappiness was mine, and not the fault of the society. In that sense, I was taught to believe that these were the happiest people and the deficiency was mine

  My ex-SIL suffers from depression. I wonder how much the wt aggravates or even causes it, but of course cannot mention this to her.

  Nothing is ever simple, is it?

  Ain't that the TRUTH! I'd dearly like all my jw friends to be out of the religion. But then their friends of several decades would have to shun them. But if they stay in, and convert others, whose families are broken when some are DF'd. . .

  Retro
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  4

  The believing spouse

  by Retrovirus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in another thread black sheep said.

  when we first find out that the wt is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the wt gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.. this gave me another little gimpse into life "inside".

  so, to better understand my jw friends, i try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.. imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.. imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which i must loyally anticipate.. imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing i must cling to what i've been taught, or anger jehovah.

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  Retrovirus

  In another thread Black Sheep said

  When we first find out that the WT is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the WT gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, Satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.

  This gave me another little gimpse into life "inside". So, to better understand my jw friends, I try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.

  Imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.

  Imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which I must loyally anticipate.

  Imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing I must cling to what I've been taught, or anger Jehovah. I'm even bloodguilty if I cannot defend what I believe, because I would "stumble" the enquirer.

  Imagine going out in service, wearing the face of a member of the happiest people on earth.

  Is it like this, or am I having a nightmare?

  Retro
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  40

  Pioneers studying with people in the nursing homes.

  by life is to short in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is this a trend that is going on.

  i live on the west coast and the po's or cobe's wife has at least one study if not more with a old lady who is totally mentally gone.

  she has no clue what is going on.

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  Retrovirus

  Thanks, Razziel,

  Great insight. So at some level all or nearly all jws disbelieve the wt line! And of course they can't share this with someone they're hoping to bring into the fold.

  It must be so hard to remain a "good" jw these days.

  Retro
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  40

  Pioneers studying with people in the nursing homes.

  by life is to short in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is this a trend that is going on.

  i live on the west coast and the po's or cobe's wife has at least one study if not more with a old lady who is totally mentally gone.

  she has no clue what is going on.

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  Retrovirus

  But. . .

  My jw ladies told me to have the "earthly hope" you had to be well advanced in studies, going out in service etc., if not actually baptised.

  If jw people are sharing time and uplifting stories with these old folks, that's charitable. They cannot expect that they will reach this level of "truth" so how can they count the time?

  Confused Retro
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  39

  Advice for a non-witness dealing with a fiance's witness family

  by JAG913 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my name is jaime and i'm here because my fiance recommended this site.

  i am not, nor will i ever be, a jehovah's witness.

  i strongly believe it is a cult, but i also am respectful of the choice people make to associate themselves within the witness "world.

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  Retrovirus

  Razziel, great post, thank for making me think about a situation I've been avoiding.

  At each step of the way I could have said "F%uck it!", blown up on them, and walked away never to speak to them again. I do have the self-esteem and self-confidence to do that.

  In fact you have shown much more self confidence than it would take to do that.

  Retro