with the new " overlap generation " theory that the wt society is pushing onto rank and file jehovah's witnesses since last year this article i found really heavy hitting in the jw version of the wt.
the wt society is leaking oil in that confidence is low among jw's in not really buying into the " generation overlap " theory as many younger jw's are exiting the organization.
so what better way to try reeling members back in by giving them an article entitled " do not deceive yourself with false reasoning " !
par 6 page 3..... 'However, then you receive word that your visitors are delayed.'
And that's where the analogy becomes deceitful. Someone advised that the guests were coming. Nobody said they would be delayed, or for how long. They just havn't arrived.
If I were a believer, I'd be very annoyed with Someone.
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in another thread black sheep said.
when we first find out that the wt is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the wt gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.. this gave me another little gimpse into life "inside".
so, to better understand my jw friends, i try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.. imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.. imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which i must loyally anticipate.. imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing i must cling to what i've been taught, or anger jehovah.
NewChapter, thank you for your reply, exactly what I was trying to understand.
It depends on your mindset at the time
That makes sense. Even in a doomed relationship, or in a dysfunctional family, there are times of peace and happiness.
my daughter lived with father, and I didn't push the religion on her
You must be very glad of this now! My ex-SIL did try, but the children didn't "take" to the wt; my brother always insisted on them having a choice. Because of the black and white mentality of the wt, it made for a very difficult marriage, although both tried hard to maintain it.
My ex told me he wanted nothing to do with the KH because I was such a bad JW it had turned him off
Your ex sounds pretty mean! Surely there are better ways to choose a faith than arbitrarily measure someone's performance. That said, I can be seriously impressed by a person who lives their spiritual values.
I actually liked service
You are like my jw friends in this; they target new immigrants and homeless people. I wouldn't doubt that some would be better off as jws than as they are now, at least temporarily. If they failed to keep the rules and were DF'd, they'd probably be worse off.
I thought my unhappiness was mine, and not the fault of the society. In that sense, I was taught to believe that these were the happiest people and the deficiency was mine
My ex-SIL suffers from depression. I wonder how much the wt aggravates or even causes it, but of course cannot mention this to her.
Nothing is ever simple, is it?
Ain't that the TRUTH! I'd dearly like all my jw friends to be out of the religion. But then their friends of several decades would have to shun them. But if they stay in, and convert others, whose families are broken when some are DF'd. . .
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in another thread black sheep said.
when we first find out that the wt is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the wt gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.. this gave me another little gimpse into life "inside".
so, to better understand my jw friends, i try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.. imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.. imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which i must loyally anticipate.. imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing i must cling to what i've been taught, or anger jehovah.
In another thread Black Sheep said
When we first find out that the WT is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the WT gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, Satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.
This gave me another little gimpse into life "inside". So, to better understand my jw friends, I try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.
Imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.
Imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which I must loyally anticipate.
Imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing I must cling to what I've been taught, or anger Jehovah. I'm even bloodguilty if I cannot defend what I believe, because I would "stumble" the enquirer.
Imagine going out in service, wearing the face of a member of the happiest people on earth.
Is it like this, or am I having a nightmare?
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is this a trend that is going on.
i live on the west coast and the po's or cobe's wife has at least one study if not more with a old lady who is totally mentally gone.
she has no clue what is going on.
Thanks, Razziel,
Great insight. So at some level all or nearly all jws disbelieve the wt line! And of course they can't share this with someone they're hoping to bring into the fold.
It must be so hard to remain a "good" jw these days.
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is this a trend that is going on.
i live on the west coast and the po's or cobe's wife has at least one study if not more with a old lady who is totally mentally gone.
she has no clue what is going on.
But. . .
My jw ladies told me to have the "earthly hope" you had to be well advanced in studies, going out in service etc., if not actually baptised.
If jw people are sharing time and uplifting stories with these old folks, that's charitable. They cannot expect that they will reach this level of "truth" so how can they count the time?
Confused Retro
my name is jaime and i'm here because my fiance recommended this site.
i am not, nor will i ever be, a jehovah's witness.
i strongly believe it is a cult, but i also am respectful of the choice people make to associate themselves within the witness "world.
Razziel, great post, thank for making me think about a situation I've been avoiding.
At each step of the way I could have said "F%uck it!", blown up on them, and walked away never to speak to them again. I do have the self-esteem and self-confidence to do that.
In fact you have shown much more self confidence than it would take to do that.
Retro
it almost seems easy to some... or like a weird funny feeling like they are doing something wrong if they go against something inside of them and actually speak to marked (people they are told to shun) people.. (sorry to be bias in this but only exaggerate circumstances to make my point).
jehovah's witness for one are known to shun disfellowshipped members.. but also there is:.
popular kids at schools who shun unpopular kids at school.. rich people who ignore poor people.. some whites that are still racest shun black and vs.. some older proper/religious ones with high moral standards shunn or at least look down one the rebels.. ...seriously does it make life easier for them or something?.
Interesting topic, and Aude Sapere, thanks for some great thoughts.
...Seriously does it make life easier for them or something?
I was never a jw, but grew up in a family where one parent "shunned" whoever was under displeasure. This meant you were ignored at mealtimes, you could get a box on the ear for not saying "good morning", but would be ignored if you did say it. All of us kids learned the importance of being in favour quickly and early. If that meant shunning a brother or sister, rather them than me. . .
Don't think that it was ever right according to my conscience. But someone insecure enough doesn't trust their own conscience over an authority figure, and/or the need to belong.
What would make them change?
Growing up and being in different environments made me change. It doesn't seem to work for everyone at the same pace.
And most importantly when is it right to shun or is it really right at all?
I cannot think of any circumstances where shunning is the best solution. Even when pushed for time and faced with a bore, there are more courteous ways of handling the situation.
There's also an element of self-distrust, or self-dislike, externalised: "I may not be all that good, but s/he's worse!"
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according to 'bigboards' there are more visitors to this site from germany than from the uk, canada and australia combined.
you'd never think it from the posters.
don't know how accurate the stats are though.. http://www.big-boards.com/board/323/ .
Hi, if any German lurkers want a bit of help with translation, please PM me!
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how many here have never been one of jehovah's witnesses?
there seems to be a common denominator of former witnesses who accuse the watchtower society of being a false organization.
what they crave is acknowledgment that their way is the best way.
Well good. That means there's actually some point in posting here
Then perhaps you could address the rest of my post?
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how many here have never been one of jehovah's witnesses?
there seems to be a common denominator of former witnesses who accuse the watchtower society of being a false organization.
what they crave is acknowledgment that their way is the best way.
Spade,
How many here have never been one of Jehovah's Witnesses?
That would be me. Although the rest of your post addresses ex-jws.
They all claim how wonderful it is that they have escaped the “lies” of the Watchtower society by using foul language, derogatory terms and sexual innuendos with each other.
No more foul language and innuendo than my fellow office workers, or indeed most people trying to avoid boring the audience.
have these so called “enlightened” individuals found something better? Have they found the truth?
IMHO, "truth" is subjective, and changes over time for many individuals, As indeed the Watchtower's "truth" changes over time.
The statistics here are hypothetical but anyone would get the point and why those with a commitment to intellectual integrity, objectivity and honest debate would find the variety of conflicting doctrines disconcerting
That is so Watchtower, loaded language (integrity, objectivity, honest) and then defining what people with these qualities would
'find". It is neither honest nor objective to write stuff like this without supporting it.
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