Posts by Retrovirus

217

Feb. 15th WT - WT Society says DFed Ones are Lawless- Just Like Demons

by flipper in

jw
friends

i would assume that some or a good number of us here as normal humans in this society - consider " lawless " actions to include murder , robbery, extortion, rape, child abuse, war , terrorism, etc.

the wt society has their own definition of what's considered " lawless ".

anything that's considered a disfellowshipping offense in the jehovah's witnesses is now considered " lawless ".

Retrovirus

@DJeggnog quotes LouBelle as saying:

The screws are tightening even more on the rank and file who unfortunately cannot or do not have the desire to think for themselves. They will eat this [drivel] with renewed vigor I'm sure and will thank the GB for sending food at the proper time. My aunt is going through a tough time at the moment. Her 2 sons are staunch JW's and have [threatened] to go to the elders and "tell on her" (she's been questioning, researching and visiting other churches)

and replies:

So let me get this straight: This woman's two sons are trying to get their mother, your aunt, disfellowshipped so that they can shun her. Is this what you are saying? And if their "plan" should turn out to be successful, because she's an apostate and she knowingly perverts the scriptures in any way, this will prove that "the rank and file .. cannot or do not have the desire to think for themselves"? You also said "that they have to go to such lengths to keep speaking freely":

(my bolding)

This deliberate distortion is a form of lying and typical of much that I read in WT publications.

And, yes, it is on topic - studying the Bible and questioning or reaerching is actually recommended in the Bible itself. It is no sin, not lawlessness and absolutely no reason to remotely consider cutting off contact with a person.

Retro

82

3/15 WT " Do Not Deceive Yourself "- WT's Excuses for No Armageddon

by flipper in

jw
friends

with the new " overlap generation " theory that the wt society is pushing onto rank and file jehovah's witnesses since last year this article i found really heavy hitting in the jw version of the wt.

the wt society is leaking oil in that confidence is low among jw's in not really buying into the " generation overlap " theory as many younger jw's are exiting the organization.

so what better way to try reeling members back in by giving them an article entitled " do not deceive yourself with false reasoning " !

Retrovirus

par 6 page 3..... 'However, then you receive word that your visitors are delayed.'

And that's where the analogy becomes deceitful. Someone advised that the guests were coming. Nobody said they would be delayed, or for how long. They just havn't arrived.

If I were a believer, I'd be very annoyed with Someone.

Retro

4

The believing spouse

by Retrovirus in

jw
friends

in another thread black sheep said.

when we first find out that the wt is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the wt gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.. this gave me another little gimpse into life "inside".

so, to better understand my jw friends, i try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.. imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.. imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which i must loyally anticipate.. imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing i must cling to what i've been taught, or anger jehovah.

Retrovirus

NewChapter, thank you for your reply, exactly what I was trying to understand.

It depends on your mindset at the time

That makes sense. Even in a doomed relationship, or in a dysfunctional family, there are times of peace and happiness.

my daughter lived with father, and I didn't push the religion on her

You must be very glad of this now! My ex-SIL did try, but the children didn't "take" to the wt; my brother always insisted on them having a choice. Because of the black and white mentality of the wt, it made for a very difficult marriage, although both tried hard to maintain it.

My ex told me he wanted nothing to do with the KH because I was such a bad JW it had turned him off

Your ex sounds pretty mean! Surely there are better ways to choose a faith than arbitrarily measure someone's performance. That said, I can be seriously impressed by a person who lives their spiritual values.

I actually liked service

You are like my jw friends in this; they target new immigrants and homeless people. I wouldn't doubt that some would be better off as jws than as they are now, at least temporarily. If they failed to keep the rules and were DF'd, they'd probably be worse off.

I thought my unhappiness was mine, and not the fault of the society. In that sense, I was taught to believe that these were the happiest people and the deficiency was mine

My ex-SIL suffers from depression. I wonder how much the wt aggravates or even causes it, but of course cannot mention this to her.

Nothing is ever simple, is it?

Ain't that the TRUTH! I'd dearly like all my jw friends to be out of the religion. But then their friends of several decades would have to shun them. But if they stay in, and convert others, whose families are broken when some are DF'd. . .

Retro

4

The believing spouse

by Retrovirus in

jw
friends

in another thread black sheep said.

when we first find out that the wt is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the wt gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.. this gave me another little gimpse into life "inside".

so, to better understand my jw friends, i try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.. imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.. imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which i must loyally anticipate.. imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing i must cling to what i've been taught, or anger jehovah.

Retrovirus

In another thread Black Sheep said

When we first find out that the WT is a scam, we immediately forget every warning that the WT gave us on how to recognise a big, scary, evil, Satan inspired, apostate, and we forget that everyone else in the hall was listening to those warnings.

This gave me another little gimpse into life "inside". So, to better understand my jw friends, I try to imagine what it would be like to completely trust the wt, but have disbelieving family and/or friends.

Imagine having children raised in the "truth", and catching the end of a cheeky, disbelieving grin at a watchtower platitude, and fearing that you are losing them.

Imagine believing that my partner and/or my children will die in a global catastophe - "soon" - which I must loyally anticipate.

Imagine the feeling of dread when my partner or friend raise a challenging subject; knowing I must cling to what I've been taught, or anger Jehovah. I'm even bloodguilty if I cannot defend what I believe, because I would "stumble" the enquirer.

Imagine going out in service, wearing the face of a member of the happiest people on earth.

Is it like this, or am I having a nightmare?

Retro

40

Pioneers studying with people in the nursing homes.

by life is to short in

jw
friends

is this a trend that is going on.

i live on the west coast and the po's or cobe's wife has at least one study if not more with a old lady who is totally mentally gone.

she has no clue what is going on.

Retrovirus

Thanks, Razziel,

Great insight. So at some level all or nearly all jws disbelieve the wt line! And of course they can't share this with someone they're hoping to bring into the fold.

It must be so hard to remain a "good" jw these days.

Retro

40

Pioneers studying with people in the nursing homes.

by life is to short in

jw
friends

is this a trend that is going on.

i live on the west coast and the po's or cobe's wife has at least one study if not more with a old lady who is totally mentally gone.

she has no clue what is going on.

Retrovirus

But. . .

My jw ladies told me to have the "earthly hope" you had to be well advanced in studies, going out in service etc., if not actually baptised.

If jw people are sharing time and uplifting stories with these old folks, that's charitable. They cannot expect that they will reach this level of "truth" so how can they count the time?

Confused Retro

39

Advice for a non-witness dealing with a fiance's witness family

by JAG913 in

jw
friends

my name is jaime and i'm here because my fiance recommended this site.

i am not, nor will i ever be, a jehovah's witness.

i strongly believe it is a cult, but i also am respectful of the choice people make to associate themselves within the witness "world.

Retrovirus

Razziel, great post, thank for making me think about a situation I've been avoiding.

At each step of the way I could have said "F%uck it!", blown up on them, and walked away never to speak to them again. I do have the self-esteem and self-confidence to do that.

In fact you have shown much more self confidence than it would take to do that.

Retro

18

What makes people ok with shunning?

by Butterflyleia85 in

it almost seems easy to some... or like a weird funny feeling like they are doing something wrong if they go against something inside of them and actually speak to marked (people they are told to shun) people.. (sorry to be bias in this but only exaggerate circumstances to make my point).

jehovah's witness for one are known to shun disfellowshipped members.. but also there is:.

popular kids at schools who shun unpopular kids at school.. rich people who ignore poor people.. some whites that are still racest shun black and vs.. some older proper/religious ones with high moral standards shunn or at least look down one the rebels.. ...seriously does it make life easier for them or something?.

Retrovirus

Interesting topic, and Aude Sapere, thanks for some great thoughts.

...Seriously does it make life easier for them or something?

I was never a jw, but grew up in a family where one parent "shunned" whoever was under displeasure. This meant you were ignored at mealtimes, you could get a box on the ear for not saying "good morning", but would be ignored if you did say it. All of us kids learned the importance of being in favour quickly and early. If that meant shunning a brother or sister, rather them than me. . .

Don't think that it was ever right according to my conscience. But someone insecure enough doesn't trust their own conscience over an authority figure, and/or the need to belong.

What would make them change?

Growing up and being in different environments made me change. It doesn't seem to work for everyone at the same pace.

And most importantly when is it right to shun or is it really right at all?

I cannot think of any circumstances where shunning is the best solution. Even when pushed for time and faced with a bore, there are more courteous ways of handling the situation.

There's also an element of self-distrust, or self-dislike, externalised: "I may not be all that good, but s/he's worse!"

Retro

8

Where are all the German posters in this forum?

by ThomasCovenant in

jw
friends

according to 'bigboards' there are more visitors to this site from germany than from the uk, canada and australia combined.

you'd never think it from the posters.

don't know how accurate the stats are though.. http://www.big-boards.com/board/323/ .

Retrovirus

Hi, if any German lurkers want a bit of help with translation, please PM me!

Retro

60

How many here have never been one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Spade in

how many here have never been one of jehovah's witnesses?

there seems to be a common denominator of former witnesses who accuse the watchtower society of being a false organization.

what they crave is acknowledgment that their way is the best way.

Retrovirus

Well good. That means there's actually some point in posting here

Then perhaps you could address the rest of my post?

Retro