i say, "oh, wow!
" because this article is a showcase for all of the ways that the writing dept.
has lost any shred of authoritative ethos or credibility.
It's my understanding that "critics" is a Watchtower buzzword, like "opposers". As soon as my jw friends hear or read it, the shutters go up, as if a storm were coming.
That's why my guess would be that the misuse of "criticism" is probably deliberate.
as a bible based organization, how do feel jehovah's organization should be reformed?
the answer is quite simple in christendoms churches:.
1. reject false doctrines like the trinity and 'all christians go to heaven' and use of images in worship.. .
thanks for the reply, Maze.
Your concerns about divisions within a family were not instituted by Jehovah's Witnesses. The real question is who is in the wrong for causing the division
No, that is not the real question. If there is a difference of opinion, how do you define "who is in the wrong"? Or even what "wrong" means? The issue is respect or others' opinions and tolerance.
Matt 10 32-39 - is not relevant to my concerns. That is about whether we love God over family and friends. It does not say you must shun someone who worships differently. Why cannot two people love God and believe differently?
But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 1 Corinthians 5:
A person whose beliefs differ from yours is not necessarily a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolator etc. Nor is it necessary to shun a person to "quit mixing in company" with him or her.
Jesus gave the example, and he spoke courteously to people in all walks of life. If he didn't judge, why do you do so?
Which still leaves the point unrefuted: Watchtower B&TS is wrong to promote shunning.
as a bible based organization, how do feel jehovah's organization should be reformed?
the answer is quite simple in christendoms churches:.
1. reject false doctrines like the trinity and 'all christians go to heaven' and use of images in worship.. .
how do feel Jehovah's Organization should be reformed
Hello again, Maze!
I'll ignore thefact that your post is actually about bashing other churches and just answer the question.
It doesn't matter much that the Watchtower B&TS (which you haven't shown to be "Jehovah's Organization") teaches inconsistant and demonstably wrong doctrine, except when lives are placed at risk.
The level of control by entirely fallible men is a concern, but there will always be those who want external reassurance rather than to think for themselves.
The real problem is shunning. Not disfellowshipping - any church can break ties with a non-conforming member - but SHUNNING.
Breaking up families over beliefs is wrong. Teaching intolerance of the beliefs of others is wrong. Using affection within family and between friends as blackmail is wrong.
If you have "the truth" and God's protection, why do the beliefs of others need to be feared?
Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to God's Word
Yeah, sure. The bits that suit the GB at the time anyway. God is love and Jesus did not shun anyone.
Retro
i recently began a wonderful relationship with a guy who also happened to be a jw.
i have learned alot about him and how the religion effects his life and now i am interested in learning more about the religion - but from a beginners' point of view.
could anyone give me an idea of the basic beliefs and practices of jws?.
Hi Jackals,
Welcome! I'm another non-jw with friends and family in.
Suggest you read the "best of" threads for a start.
Basically this is a high-control religion, and it's hard for believers to behave authentically.
Good luck, Retro
hmmm where do i start?
well, i have been lurking on here for about 6 months.
i was raised around the witnesses all my life.
Welcome!
As a non-jw all I'll add is that we cannot find peace and security in an organisation, each of us needs to follow our own path. Even the wt agrees- at least until the path leads away from the org!
Best wishes, and keep researching.
Retro
all i can say is "wow!
" in the 10 years i've been out i had no idea that forums like this existed.
a tad naive-sounding for someone with a background in it, i know, but it's taken me this long just to feel comfortable enough to type 'jw' into google.
Welcome!
Retro
i thought it best i stay a lurker.
it's just right now, i'm going through some doubts and just plain discouraged.
sometimes, trying to do everything just wears me out, and i feel like i'm suffocating.
EmptyInside, you made me cry at work, Dammit! That was such a sad first post and I'm so glad things are better for you now.
As a non-jw but with a less than ideal upbringing and attitude, I felt very empty inside too at a few points of my life, and also despaired of things improving in the future. In one of those times I started "studying" with jws at the instigation of my SIL. I couldn't believe, but tried to, so they would keep visiting.
But good times came as well as bad. It's strange; when my jw ladies called after stopping the regular "studies" they clearly expected me to feel abandoned. That triggered my self-reliance and things started to turn around. Now that I'm more comfortable I can see how hard their life is with low incomes, illness and the many calls on their time. Depression can make me very self-centered.
A pity they can probably never really be my friends, but there's all the rest of the world, and everything to learn and do.
Enjoy the freedom and be happy.
i remember an alternative song released in the 1980's.. .
nothing has changed since then for the better, only for the worse.
will humanity bring the world to a permanent end if divine intervention wasn't a factor to take into consideration?
Proof for the main point of the OP - a song.
Maze is asked
Tell me Maze, when in human history (not the mythical Garden of Eden) were things better than today?
and dodges the question by replying
There's more evidence for creation than mythical ape-men
From Maze's previous post, which at least was an attempt to address "World Destruction"
These signs of the last days have dramatically intensified in the 20th century. It's only been in the 20th century that we've had the technology to “ruin the earth"
Except that the Biblical word - erets - means earth in the sense of "ground", not "world". Thus every time a yard is laid with cobblestones the "earth" is ruined. No need for advanced technology.
If you really believe your strained interpretation, Maze - hope you don't drive a car.
i have a jw acquaintance whom i do odd jobs for because we supposedly became friends a few years ago.
we became acquainted before i knew about her worldview.
when i do odd jobs for her, sometimes in passing she will make not-overtly-religious-but-still-jw-type comments that make my skin crawl, but i don't respond.
Hi InterestedOne,
I know the feeling well. Learning to be appropriately assertive yet not bossy will take me a lifetime, I think!
Your friend knows she is right (has "The Truth" ) and therefore whatever she tells you is beneficial and all you're allowed to do is agree. So she is on a win-win (either you agreed and her belief is validated, or she "gave a fine witness" but you couldn't accept it because Satan asserted his power).
So, see, you are not conversing or exchanging ideas. She'll put her biassed spin on whatever you say or do.
That leaves it up to you. Some possibilities:
1. Raise a question that the jw belief cannot answer (How can we know that Christ chose the org in 1916 or whenever is a good one) . Until she gives a definitive answer to whatever question you pose, just smile and remind "you know you haven't answered my question and that's why I think differently".
2. Counter a subject switch or "wise counsel" with a hurt, bewildered look and ask "Did I say that? How did you understand that from this?" "Could we get back to the point, please?"
She may still end the "friendship" or limit contact, and may still deduce that she was persecuted for her religion. Just remember - it wasn't a friendship; if she could say anything and you could not, you were being used. And that in jw-mode, there is no logic to anything she says or believes. None of this prevents you from enjoying life in your own way.
All the best, Retro
after carefully evaluating the my current life situation, i've come to the conclusion that returning to the hall will be best for me.
i simply just don't fit in with the rest of the world.
i don't drink, smoke, have sex, go to clubs, listen to worldly music, watch movies, or gamble.
Thanks, PP, now that I understand I'd agree with the majority here. Making friends is not easy for us all; I'm an introvert myself.
However, what Morbidzbaby said is very true. After many months of "studies" and converstaion, I regarded the jw ladies who visited as friends, but I was dropped as soon as they decided that I didn't make the grade, and it hurt.
So I'd say, take the harder road, join groups that share an interest with you - sport, hobby, education, whatever, and build your relationships slowly but steadily.
Best of luck however you decide, Retro
