Keep up the good work Gary - wish I could be as positive as the others here have been - she may indeed someday "get it" but also prepare yourself for the possibility that she never does and the great likelihood that she will start being very IRRITATED about your revelations of flawless logic - stay calm and smooth throughout - seeds of truth are only sown in peace (you probably realize that last thought taken from James 3:17 but we used to use it in supporting what we "thought" was truth.) Be patient with her - remember this organization builds great defenses around their adherents to prevent any deflection.
saltyoldlady
JoinedPosts by saltyoldlady
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40
New Light. Is it new truth or simply new understanding on the underlying truth?
by garyneal ini went to the assembly for half a day today.
does truth change?".
"the truth does not change," she said, "but our understanding of it changes.".
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What Was Meant By 'Abstain From Blood'?
by headisspinning ini have always been very hardcore about my aversion to blood and have never even considered the possibility that this was merely a dietary restriction.
i always bought into the analogy of a doctor telling a patient to abstain from alcohol... it wouldn't matter whether this individual drank the alcohol or took it intravenously... it would all be in direct contradiction to the doctor's orders to 'abstain' from alcohol.. or the other analogy is to an apple pie... if you weren't to eat the pie, it would not be okay to separate it out into the main parts (or 'components)... ie.
the flour, the apples, the sugar or the cinnamon... if they were taken from that pie, you were eating the pie.. so maybe you can see where the questions popped up for me.
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saltyoldlady
What one does is read the Bible for themselves (minus everyone else's interpretations) and then try to imitate Jesus Christ in all that you do.
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When Sects are Cults
by Lunatic Faith ini know this is a long post and i'm sorry.
but this is a paper i wrote for my sociology final this term.
i was supposed to look at some aspect of my life sociologically.
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saltyoldlady
Excellent material - just excellent. Thank you for sharing, Luna - shall not call you Lunatic because you have definitely proven yourself quite the opposite! And my heart feels so saddened for what you have experienced in your early life.
Another book I just recently finished reading on Mind Control was The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse by David Johnson and Jeff Van Vonderen. It confirms your points and adds a few more - is a much quicker and easier read than the old Lifton, and other classics in this field and would be my preference to recommend to someone first investigating the possibility of making a change - the subtitle is Recognizing & Escaping Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority within the church - and the points can be applied even to churches not technically classified as cults but as a manual to avert veering off in damaging directions.
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Malawi Party Card, Scans and comment
by BluesBrother ini am indebted to marvin shilmer for the info, on his excellent site.. link .http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/03/malawi-savage-betrayal-by-watchtower.html.
i was so pleased to see the actual cards that caused all the trouble, after wanting to see it for so long, that i post it today.. first, the background in case anybody does not know the terrible events that happened.
in the late 1960's to early 1970's jehovah's witnesses were cruelly persecuted and subjected to the worst possible beatings, rape torture and death.
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saltyoldlady
Thank you - Blues Brothers. I did the same as you when Marvin made that post - I enlarged the pic of the party card so I could read it and was so dumbfounded - your explanatory comments so excellent too - we can't excuse the inflammatory reactions of the government to the refusal to sign or pay the small tax which is what it actually amounted to but the whole fiasco could so simply have been avoided by the GB in New York whom I believe simply "triggered" upon the word "Party" card without doing sufficient investigation to see what it really amounted to
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THE ANALOGY OF LEAVING THE ORGANIZATION OF JWs
by PublishingCult incan you give an analogy of what it was like (for you personally) leaving the organization of jehovahs witnesses?.
for me, it was very much like the story of mountain climber aron ralston.
the canyon wall of the narrow passage was the watchtower bible & tract society.
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saltyoldlady
Magnificent - if I knew how to post pictures here I'd use the one a brother once gave me of a hammer hitting the nail right on.
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High Profile Case: Seeking Reinstatement
by headisspinning inbut our situation is very difficult and quite high profile.... i was raised as a jw and my mother was very strict and abusive.
i got baptized at age 14.. my mother actually called on my (present) husband's mom in service.
she was on the initial call resulting in his mom coming in the truth and him being raised in it from about age 8 or 9.. despite a very abusive step-father, he followed his mom's lead and came into the truth.
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saltyoldlady
Hi Headspinning - I can well understand your ex's concern in view of the world news - just remember Jehovah will not let you be destroyed even though you are not in an approved condition with the WTS. You ARE in an approved condition with Him because of your repentence and love for Him.
I have recently signed up for an interesting news site called The Extinction Protocol:2012 and beyond - while I don't hold to the 2012 hooplah just because it is so popular and the scriptures show He will take action at a time mankind is not expecting, nevertheless this site is filled with scientific material - not religious commentary unless you specifically click on the Prophecies subtitle and there are a couple things in the archives that are truly fascinating - one I recomend is entitled Civilizations unraveling - Global Protests + Uprisings Maps in Time Lapse - have to scroll down a tiny bit to find it, but there is a short video that is so well done and the music background is exquisite too - fits the mood - makes one think Brother Russell had it all correct about the world going into a state of anarchy - just that he was 100 years off - 2014 instead of 1914 maybe. I think this actually was listed under Dark Ages: Has Modern civilization reached its zenith
and then another item that happened before the big quake in Japan was Planet Earth shaken, rocked and rattled and still trembling - shows all the areas around the globe with seismic trembling increasing and tectonic shifting occurring - magnetic energy becoming very low for the earth and scientific basis for very possible pole shifting - fascinating stuff.
A scripture that occurred to me while praying for you this morning was Col 2:20- If you have died to the flesh together with the Christ and have been set free from the ruling spirits of the world why do you, as if still belonging to the world, further subject yourselves t the decrees and commands of men...............Col 3:1- If however you were raised up with the Christ, go on seeking heavenly things where the Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. Keep your minds on the things above, not on the things of the earth. For you died to the world and your life has been hidden with the Christ, in union with God. When Christ, in whom is our life is made manifest, then you will be made manifest together with him in glory.
Don't let any teachings and traditions of men persuade you to think these messages don't pertain to you - they do. And your safety rests in Him. And then I had another thought from the little book called Practising the Presence of God - by Brother Lawrence - an 16th century monk that is just marvelous and totally scripturally based - simple and direct - It is okay to pray for relief and deliverance from problems, as long as one remembers to include "if it be His will" and then search for understanding of His will. Love, Salty
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The blessings of being disfellowshipped
by JRK indon't get me wrong, it does suck.
but after being on ex-jw boards for years, and being df'ed for almost 10; i do see some hidden blessings.. first, you do not have to struggle with fading successfully.
you are just out; the cord has been cut.
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saltyoldlady
To NLW's Wife - Yeah - I know. I got going and just couldn't shut up. LOL.
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High Profile Case: Seeking Reinstatement
by headisspinning inbut our situation is very difficult and quite high profile.... i was raised as a jw and my mother was very strict and abusive.
i got baptized at age 14.. my mother actually called on my (present) husband's mom in service.
she was on the initial call resulting in his mom coming in the truth and him being raised in it from about age 8 or 9.. despite a very abusive step-father, he followed his mom's lead and came into the truth.
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saltyoldlady
Dear Headspinning - First I want to say I will be praying with all my heart for you and your hubby to be surrounded with God's love - to help you through this traumatic time. It is wonderful that you have this deep bond with one another - treasure it, and thank God for it. He meant you to strengthen one another. I am so glad that the ex spouses involved have had the maturity to encourage you back into the fold. And I will pray that the contact with your hubbie's former children by his previous marriage can be increased and grow - that things can soften in that area.
May I also encourage you to read Ray Franz's book In Search of Christian Freedom - it is available in PDF format for $9.95 last I looked and contains so much spiritual depth. It is the 2nd and last book he wrote. I wrote letters to him and he always corresponded right back - sometimes with lengthy letters that were so rich. When I told him I was so sad about what had happened to him but I still found much good in the organization - my view at that time similar to yours - his reply was beautiful - he just simply said he was glad that I had found good and I knew he was sincere in that expression. It was so remarkable he didn't harbor bitterness in his soul. He accepted me where I was, as a person beginning to see problems, but as a person that still treasured much in the organization. I want to extend the same dignity to you.
To Wanna Be Free - thank you for the marvelous You Tube video - I watched the whole hour and thirteen minutes worth - and was so moved by it - tears even streamed down my face as I felt their miracle of change. Though I still am anti-trinitarian in my views and was so before ever knowing the WTS but it was so very moving to see their willingness to let the Bible speak its truth to them and their courage to just follow the Word and not the teachings and traditions of men. And I kept wondering would the brothers in the Governing Body of today's WTS ever be willing to do the same? It is indeed an amazing miracle to see the Worldwide Church of God come out from under their legalistic background. If it happened once for one organization it could happen again. Prayer is indeed a mighty force and I thought the one sister's comments about Jack Hayford doing a prayer walk around the campus so fascinating. He was the same man who so inspired Stormie O'Martian on her spiritual course and Headspinning I highly recommend The Power of a Praying Woman by Stormie O'Martian to you also, and the Power of a Praying Wife another marvelous one to help your spiritual walk while you are waiting. You will not find anything doctrinally objectionable in these. And wishing you peace - not in the way the world gives it but as our Lord extended it.
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The Gentile Times Reconsidered
by Spade indisproving the date 1914 as a significant year in bible prophecy is of great importance to some (e.g.
carl o. jonsson).
along with the meticulous details of bible and secular chronology, broadening one's horizons when assessing exactly what this date represents when compared against the 6000 years of human history likewise has merit.
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saltyoldlady
Spade - you are one CLASSIC example of why we are no longer, or have never become part of, nor will ever return to the WTS.
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The blessings of being disfellowshipped
by JRK indon't get me wrong, it does suck.
but after being on ex-jw boards for years, and being df'ed for almost 10; i do see some hidden blessings.. first, you do not have to struggle with fading successfully.
you are just out; the cord has been cut.
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saltyoldlady
The blessings have been surprising and many -
#1 I used to use 2 tanks of gas a month hauling everyone else around - and going back and forth to the meetings and field service. Now I only use about 1 tank every three months so that is a major financial blessing plus tons of time saved and irritation about people who were never on time and made me wait while they got ready, sometimes making me late for the meetings, etc., etc. And the gratitude for going miles out of my way was mostly zilch - there was one faithful sister that always made an effort to reimburse me and was very appreciative - but the rest just looked at what I did as "my Christian duty" on their behalf. And of course the maintenance costs saved should be thrown in - I calculated one time it really costs about $1/Mile to drive one's car - had twenty years of bills for the same vehicle as basis for this calculation - I still have the baby and she runs like a top cause I've always pampered and taken good care of her. But now I don't find it necessary to go out and vacuum it out once a week, pick up the coffee cups, papers stuff, chewing gum, candy wrappers, and whatever else people invariably left as love offerings I guess. In fact just being me using the buggy she only needs interior cleaning about once a year if that much and never gets littered up ever.
#2 I used to have dry cleaning bills - about $15/Month keeping myself sharp and presentable for the meetings and service - (I know some of you will say I could have re-invented my wardrobe with items that could be thrown in the machine but I never did even tho the idea occurred to me more than once.) Now I have a whole wardrobe section of my closet that never gets used anymore - I wear only cotton jeans and comfy sweatshirts or cotton pullovers - in the summer, same thing - casual wear - shorts, cotton blouses. Plus I no longer have to buy new nylons cause I only wear tennis shoes and cotton socks. It's so nice - so comfortable - and so MUCH cheaper on the retirement income. The Bible Study Class I attend they all do the same - no one dresses up like the WTS stiffs. And the churches I have visited also dress at least semi casual so if I want to come in a pair slacks and nice sweater I don't look a bit out of place. I have forgotten all about the fact dresses were ever invented even.
#3 I have cut my phone bill down to the cheapest rate $10/Month plan cause it now only gets used for emergency reasons. Used to be it cost me from $40 to $60/Mo because so many of the friends wanted to chit chat on my cell phone - I don't miss that time waster or expense AT ALL. And my feelings never ever get hurt about what so and so said or thinks about me - not that I wasted much concern on that in the past but there were always the types that felt it their duty to keep you abreast of all the "latest" poop they had scooped. It's so nice to live in peace and quiet.
#4 I have time - oh my - loads of precious time that I now spend on real Bible Study about subjects that are of REAL concern to myself and not somebody else's idea of what I SHOULD be reading or studying. And now the Bible seems to speak to my mind and heart - instead of my Bible reading seeming like a "duty" for preparation of the meeting parts. AND I sure don't miss having talk assignments to prepare - believe you me. I used to SLAVE over those being a perfectionist by nature. Now I'm just happy go lucky - cruising along - loving life with nary a day I dread getting out of bed - in fact now I get up hours earlier than I used to do cause I have exciting things to study or do - not obligations designed by some character in New York. No more obligatory meetings that had become just routines and were proving less and less stimulating.
#5 And now I don't have a constant load of people popping in on me all hours of the day wanting me to do this or that with them - I actually get what I started out to do done for once on the same day I began the task. And if I'm wanting companionship I can just pop over to my computer and bug you poor people - midnight or any time of the day. You don't mind. I can stay up all night and sleep all day if the mood so strikes (fortunately it doesn't strike often.) I never feel guilty anymore that I'm not helping Sister so and so, or spending ENOUGH time in the field service, or taking care of other people's young un's - I now have time for my OWN grandchildren. And the cost savings of not feeding someone almost every day because that is the gracious thing to do when they come right at meal time - my food budget almost dropped in half. And no more salads, deserts, soups etc. for the letter writing group - and then rounding up the containers months later that you brought the food in. And no more hosting of get togethers either. It's such a relief. Lonely now? Hell no. It's heaven to have peace and quiet in one's life.
I'm sure there are a number of other items I'm forgetting at the moment but most of all I don't feel like I have to walk a tigthrope - I can be me - free to be me. Integrity - that is the greatest blessing of all - I am now "authentic" - I'm genuine - whole-souled and whole hearted. Would that be called "wholesome?" I think that is the blessing - being wholesome and just free to love all and everyone. DF'ing is a blessing - for me.