Fascinating stuff - now I know what to invest in - God's right hand is behind it, right? A can't lose proposition unless God backs their investment ideas the same way He does their prophesy!
saltyoldlady
JoinedPosts by saltyoldlady
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21
The Watchtower Society owns businesses?
by garyneal inin my previous topic alwayshere said the following:.
you asked "can a jw join the military?
" her answer "no all the military is good for is killing people and destroying things.
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Russell on "new light."
by Forscher inin view of the recent threads about "new light", i thought you might like to see the gem recently posted by rr144 on his the forum he administers: .
"if we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now: but with god there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from god must be like its author.
a new view of truth never can contradict a former truth.
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saltyoldlady
Wow - what a find! Thank you. I love this one.
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Online Grocery shopping...does anyone do this?
by Joliette inthe peapod logo keeps coming up on my screen.
i clicked on it out of curiousity, and i was wondering if anyone has actually order online groceries?.
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saltyoldlady
My daughter uses online ordering for organic veggies and fruits in this area - gets a once a week delivery of great variety - she has five teenagers and a husband so they go through a ton of groceries easily. She is able to select and specify substitutions for some of the offerings that the kids just won't eat too, like more spuds, less salad greens, etc. The price is reasonable, the produce is mostly local, and the taste superior over grocery store purchase.
I use online Vital Choices for nearly all my fish products and also get organic frozen berries and trailmix regularly from them. Their wild line-caught King Salmon is the Best ever. And now they have started offering frozen fermented veggies in sauerkraut form - great taste tantalizers. I give thumbs down on their soups however. Just a personal thing.
And now Amazon.com offers online shopping for many packaged and canned grocery items with quite a selection of brands. Was going to order a case of canned milk thru them which was shipped out of Sam's Club - very close to me - but the cost was $54 for delivery for an $8.99 item - that didn't make a lot of sense so I trashed that idea. But the bottled water is the same price as local grocery store and free delivery. That is a deal as I have to carry all my groceries down steps in my little grocery cart and with one messed up arthritic hip it can be quite a tussle.
I find myself ordering more and more things online - all my nutritional products, beauty products - gave up trying to be beautiful years ago - but love scented soaps, and essential oils for the bath water, etc. So internet shopping has become the thing with me.
Also order butter, meat, and cheese - organic - from US Wellness. The hamburger says it is 75% lean only which sounded like way too much fat for my ruthers but tried it anyway. That experience was amazing - the stuff didn't spatter like usual, nor did it suffer a lot of shrinkage that I was expecting. And the taste was not "fatty" but delectable. I won't go back to local grocery store meat anymore. It is all delievered in its frozen state to my door. The butter tastes wonderful too - pasture fed dairy products higher in vitamin K they say. But the taste is worth it. Used to get some "to die for" mild cheddar cheese from New Zealand but they discontinued their shipping out of the country so I am using US Wellness cheese now - it's not as good - too sharp by contrast. Am going to search for Vermon Cheddar Cheese online.
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Does your Cat want to sit on your Lap while you are on the Toilet .....?
by flipper ini don't know what it is ...... but it's becoming disconcerting.
he's going to just have to sit outside the door and wait.
i know it will be dissappointing to him , as he purrs like crazy while gathering in the experience.
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saltyoldlady
Hi Flipper - I have tons of cat stories having had many many cats over the years. And yes - some of them have tried this but I have no patience with such so they soon learned to skip that procedure with me. I suspect it is one of the few times they catch us sitting down for any length of time.
But I also had the cat's litter box in the bathroom and it got so my last cat, Fluffy - a big old longhaired orange tom - generic looking cat with the white nose, would come and use his litter box while I was using mine. Kind of a routine - if I thought it was time to do the bathroom thing he thought so too. And he covered while I flushed - totally synchronized. Now that's togetherness. LOL.
Another cat I called Peter - a Snowshoe Siamese and a real character - brought a mouse in the house to play with. Then when he tired of his play thing he deposited him in the bathtub as the creature's playpen and yes the mouse was still very much alive. When I came in the bathroom I was sure of how the creature had gotten there but not sure of which cat was guilty - the poor little mouse was totally unable to escape the steep shiny walls. Well I can't bear killing little creatures nor watching the cats torment them so I got myself a paper bag to catch him and deposit him back outside. When I had successfully finished the task Peter showed up and showed his disappointment at my lack of appreciation - there was no missing the fact the mouse had been his personal trophy and he also let me know what he thought of my unjust robbery as only a Siamese can talk in that nasal twang.
Then another cat I had called Cubber Cubs - brother of Fluffy - they both came to me when tiny kittens - their mother brought them up the hill into my yard and moved them in with my other cats - her brother was Peter - came into the bathroom just as the water was emptying out the drain from my bath. He jumped up on the edge and I thought to myself he is very likely to slip right into the water and not like it but before I could do anything about it - he had jumped right in - the water was only about 2 inches deep but it came up to his bellyand instead of being afraid he just plodded right down to the drain to watch what was going on. I guess he was fascinated with the gurgling sound and wondered what sort of creature purred like that. He was so funny as he kept twisting his head round and round with the water swirling trying to see down into the drain. And ever after he was easy to give a bath - he had very little fear of the water and would just stand there patiently while I sudsed him up and rinsed him off. Amazing cat and he looked just identical to St. George's orange tabby above.
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I'm a Mess
by headisspinning ini am an emotional mess.. yesterday, i was so firm.
today i feel like crying.
it was a lovely, sunny day here.
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saltyoldlady
Dear Julia - I'm going to share a true life experience with you - it will have your head spinning literally - but maybe it will help you realize you are not alone and that our loving Heavenly Father is very tender and merciful. He truly cares and He also understands. I myself wasn't so merciful and understanding about this couple even though I loved them as individuals. I now wish I had been. Here is the story.........
Once upon a time in a place far far away and long long ago - with that kind of beginning I could insert the name of David and Bathsheba there - hadn't meant to use that example actually but maybe it is even a better one than the one I was going to share with you. What David did was wrong - no two ways about it - and one wonders how much complicity Bathsheba shares in the events too. David even added to his problems by getting further involved in wrongdoing - your hubby hasn't gone there so give him a round of applause for that - but did Jehovah abandon David? Did he abandon Bathsheba? No he stuck right with them and helped them work it out. Yes there were bad consequences and some of those consequences followed them all their lives. David suffered great heartache for what he did and Nathan gave it to him pretty point blank with his little story about stealing a sheep - a very much loved sheep from a poor but faithful man - but meditate on this one deeply - David ended up growing through this experience - he begged Jehovah for a clean heart and a new spirit and it was granted. It will be granted to you also - not necessarily through the WTS - in fact it looks pretty doubtful at the moment it is going to come thru their channels. But sorrow can enlarge the heart and teach you more compassion than you even had before. You may even experience your children turning on you like David did and like the children I am going to tell you about in my modern day example but you will survive inspite of the GREAT SORROW!
And the most beautiful ending to the above episode I really want you to dwell upon - Jehovah still used David's line for the Messiah. And get this - he even honored this "adulterous" relationship further by allowing the Messiah to track through David and Bathsheba together - he didn't have to have done that - David had lots of other wives. Does that tell you something about Jehovah's loving mercy and kindness. He doesn't reject us just for mistakes - even serious mistakes - a broken heart and a crushed spirit are all the sacrifices He has ever asked and you have both shown you have that. Buoy up!
The modern day story - and I am only a bystander in this story - a witness - there once were two people that just clicked - that were just meant for one another. But they were each married to other mates that did not produce happy unions. The two met each other because the man's wife had become best friends with the sister that clicked for him. The man's wife saw that there was a deepening bond forming between her husband and this sister. Yes - that part of the story is bad - not good at all. Both individuals already had families with their respective mates. The sister went to the elders and told them what she sensed was happening but she even went further - she accused her husband of immoral relations with her best friend. The truth of the matter is that had not happened but the elders invited the brother in for a talking to - of course they struck a very sore and sensitive spot and the brother in his guilt for the fact that there really was a bond emotionally developing said some very unkind indecent things to the elders - he lost his cool. So inspite of the fact no adultery had really been committed he was disfellowshipped. His wife divorced him and found another. He was in the pitts - and suicidal to boot. He loved Jehovah with all his heart and felt he had dishonored God and Jesus Christ but at the same time he hadn't meant to and he had not committed "the act."
Well of course the friendship between the two women blew up - finished, gone, ugly - but the brother had no job, no place to live, and was suicidal. So what does the sister do with whom he had been forming the deep emotional ties - you will find this part of the story hard to believe but truth is stranger than fiction - she finds him a free cottage to live in right across the alley from she and her husband who lived way up in the sticks, the country and all that the brother would have to do is keep up the place, protect it from being further vandalized and also keep up the yard to the big old house of the owner who no longer lived there - just visited now and then. He lived in town now but his mother and father had come from the old country and established a home there - in fact several dwellings for various ones of the family to live in as they grew up and married. The place had deep sentimental and emotional ties for him. But the mother and father had passed away and all the families had moved into civilization. It was the perfect scenario. So the brother accepted and took the place. He was DF'd so technically not allowed to speak with the sister who was still married to her husband and one day he was about to commit suicide and she walked across the alley and knocked on his door - prevented the dastardly deed. No they did not get sexually involved. But the tie ever deepened because of her saving his life.
The brother worked hard at being re-instated and was successful. Then he and the sister and her husband became very friendly. Every weekend they would have him over for dinner and attend a movie together or some other social thing. The sister's husband had never been a good fit for her - truth is she had not even truly loved him when she married him - he had rescued her from off the streets and living with him was better than out in the cold. Then she began to study and in order to get baptized she was told she would have to marry the guy - how many times have I seen this backfire - so marry they did but he didn't join the WTS for many years - had no true spiritual interests whatsoever - they had children and by now the children were mostly grown - the reinstated brother across the alley studied with their one remaining son at home and they formed a good relationship. But the brother married to the sister just never did dig the truth - he liked the social aspects - and that was about all. The sister was very spiritual and so was the brother across the alley. That drew them even closer of course. Difficult situation here. It seems the sister's husband never became the jealous type nor even worried about the bond between his wife and the brother across the alley. In fact he was not very emotionally enthralled with his wife and he didn't give a whoot. He just liked hunting and fishing and camping and all this spiritual stuff and routine were so much rot to him. The undercurrents were building.
And yes, the day finally came after years of ice between the sister and her husband that she told him she didn't love him anymore and he decided it was a good idea to pursue a divorce. He went out and deliberately had some fun so it could be deemed a scriptural divorce. And now she was free to marry brother romantic across the alley. How do you imagine the congregation handled what they saw all these years - not good at all. No the couple never got involved in physical immorality and yes they did marry one another. They asked me to stand up for them at their wedding at the Justice of the Peace - but I told them no, I couldn't do that. It just didn't "look" good - even though I loved them both. And here's the clincher that will cause your head to spin - they were both partakers of the emblems. That made it seem even worse to the congregation. They have remained within the fold and work hard to do everything "just so" but the congregation will never let it just pass by. They love each other deeply and have since switched congregations but their reputation keeps following them. It causes great despondency for them and frustration. The children of both refuse to talk or have anything to do with them. That too is an even deeper hurt and in fact they said some pretty ugly things just prior to the wedding. I guess my point in telling you all of this is that even though the details are not exactly the same you are not alone in what you have experienced. And you are not alone in the suffering - though this couple are not DF'd they might as well be for the way they are treated. The brother, although a very brilliant and persuasive young man - young only compared to me that is - will never be allowed to have a position in the congregation or even allowed to perform rudimentary duties like carrying the mikes, assisting at the book counter, etc. He continues to find many progressive Bible Studies and converts every so many also but that just doesn't seem to count to the elders. They love each other dearly but the price paid has been steep. My suspicion is they would be much happier outside the organization with its judgmentalism. God has long ago forgiven them even tho men cannot find it in their hearts to do so.
Will nothing like writing a whole book here but I feel keenly your hardships and difficulties in trying to establish normalcy of life. Just one thing I want to impress upon you - Jehovah and Jesus Christ and myself too all love you both, can and do forgive you, and welcome you with open arms. Your sacrifices have been more than sufficient. I wish I had been more loving with these two friends when I was inside the WTS - now I have the Christen Freedom to be loving. Salty
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Why do I feel bad about my children leaving the JW religion?
by lifeisgood in(please, no jws come in here to convert me, i don't want to talk to you).
i left the jw religion after twenty years.
i had one teenager and two small children then.
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saltyoldlady
Dear Lifeisgood - you will probably be surprised to see me offering a post in response here - but truth is I have wondered if it is a good thing that my 17 year old grandson is not pulling close to the WTS himself. His mother, my daughter, left and has a great deal of bitterness about the organization - her former husband, the father is still active and yearns with all his heart that my grandson would get baptized. I even find myself wondering if it is a good thing he is rejecting the organization. Of course my example only adds to his mother's and strengthens his resolve to resist baptism vows. But here are the observations I have also made - he is in the custody of my daughter now thanks to an ugly $25,000 pricetag and a week long custody trial. At the time my grandson really wanted to go live with his dad. I don't honestly know where his preferance is at the moment because he is fairly tight lipped about those subjects.
But of all the five children in the family - my daughter inherited her new husband's family of four other children - about the same age as my grandson, and my grandson has many advamtages over the other children thanks to his first 11 years of active involvement in the WTS system. He has learned discipline, respect, polite manners, a humility and willingness to cooperate with others. He does not shirk his share of responsibilities in the family and reaches out to do more than his fair share to alleviate stress for others and help in times of crises. I don't think it is because he has better genes, or is a better person. I think it is because of the training he encountered as a young person. Being in the organization has a stabilizing influence. While I am joyful about my freedom, in fact I worry about my grandson's. It does not appear to me that he is pulling toward spiritual concerns or a spiritual life. While I do not espouse the WTS way as being the correct route at the same time I feel there needs to be an anchor for the young people and I wonder if he has that anchor.
I guess the way I see it there are good things and bad things about the WTS - and I want him to have the good things. I suspect too it is really the behavior choices of your children that saddens you - not truthfully the fact that they left the WTS organization or refused to join up with it. If you sensed their lives were bringing happiness because they were learning to love and serve others you wouldn't have a moment's sadness. And as much bad as we saw in the fruits of the WTS we still want to pursue what is right and good, moral, responsible because it is the satisfying route of life.
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Perhaps these are REALLY revealing questions!
by Terry inwe treat the other differently the more we know about them.. if we meet a powerful official we act, talk and think differently while in their presence.
(rather than a homeless person, a gang member, a saleman, etc.).
how much more so this affects how we think and act concerning who we worship!.
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saltyoldlady
Oh now I see why I forgot #4 - LOL, rolling in laughter actually! Being a 30's brat myself the idea of feminizing God is outlandish! But why not? Who are we to say what His gender is or that He even has gender. We have made him "male" because of our culture I suspect and we don't want to call Him "it" because again that depersonalizes God. Jesus gave him the Father persona and so I accept that but then I also accept Scripture as having "some kind of authority" in my life even though many arguments are out there arguing differently. And I see many on this Board that do not accept the Bible as divinely inspired any longer or even doubting there is anymore than a First Cause. That saddens me but I am trying to adjust my thinking to comprehend this.
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Perhaps these are REALLY revealing questions!
by Terry inwe treat the other differently the more we know about them.. if we meet a powerful official we act, talk and think differently while in their presence.
(rather than a homeless person, a gang member, a saleman, etc.).
how much more so this affects how we think and act concerning who we worship!.
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saltyoldlady
Terry - I like your threads. They are always examples of excellent thinking. In fact I am rather in awe of your brain power and not at all sure I can match wits with you but I'll bite this once - wish I had a printer so I could print your comments off - I have to operate from memory which at my age ain't too great - but my choice in this list is #2 - probably because that is what I was indoctrinated with for 40 plus years. Hard to step out of a mold - but it might well have been the biggest drawing hook for me to become a member of the WTS of all. It made God someone I could relate to as a father and have a personal relationship with - some would say that relationship is "imaginary" at best and I'd have a difficult time to convince anyone else of any thing different but emotionally I am very wired into it. And everything that happens gets interpreted with that set of "rose-colored" specs hooked atop my beaked nose. This makes God someone I can look to for guidance, help, support - all the things a Father does. And it makes Jesus Christ my brother - that is another relationship I have come to love. So I have anthropormophosed God - think I just made up a word there but you get the thought.
The first choice seems to be where most of the Christian world today lies - and I have contemplated the results of such a belief. For one it makes God "mysterious" - difficult to relate to. For two if Jesus Christ and God are "one" (leave the Holy Spirit out of this for a moment) it makes it possible to contemplate my being "One" with God, translates to "equal with God" for former WTS adherents and of course a big no-no. I have reasoned (if we can call it that - probably not - rationalized a better term) - that people choose #1 because they want to be "gods" themselves. A very slanted and ugly characterization from a WTS adherent view. I know there are "tons" almost literally tons of scriptures using the terminology of Jesus and God being One, One in many many different ways. We used to like to specify "in union with" rather than just straight One.
I have been recently reworking this area in my theology - a long ways from finished yet but I have come to see ever so many ways that Jesus and Jehovah are One or in agreement and even have accepted the idea that the Alpha and Omega terminology that used to hook us up in Revelation disputes might be reconciled as Jesus having been given Jehovah's title there, also as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, which some could say belongs only to Jehovah. I am currently "fighting" my way through John and it is literally a fight because his writings are most often the ones we used to argue about at the doors.
I get so angry at people that say Jehovah's Witnesses teach Jesus does not have "divinity." (And I'm not even one anymore - LOL) But the way I read the words Jesus is "divine" - of the source of God and we too are given "divine nature" through him so we can be one with other believers and Christ even as Christ is one with his Father. It seems what they mean by three in one is something different than what I am perceiving and for me it borders on Satan's ploy "You can be like God" - I want to avoid that at all costs so I prefer choice #2 over #1.
#3 seemed to "depersonalize" God for me - it may actually be a more accurate representation scientifically - it just alienates and separates Jehovah from me. To me he has emotions as well as mental capacity - to intellectualize him makes him cold. Recently I was watching a DVD by Thomas Bearden (a nuclear physicist) who described the particle world outside of time and space dimensions. That is a difficult one to wrap the mind around but technically speaking it seemed he was saying all particles are "One" outside of these separation devices of space and time dimension. So to say Jesus, Jehovah, and the Holy Spirit are "one" may be correct. I am not sure how to handle that in my emotional, spiritual, or physical makeup. In fact I even separate Holy Spirit off into its own little category too - as WTS taught us - easier to classify and understand but Holy Spirit does seem to display personality characteristics to the nth degree so how does one answer those quandries?
Your 4th point or view I've forgotten already. But at least I've made a stab at it and that is all it is I realize - stabbing in the darkness trying to glean light - how is that for an oxymoron. But I do think your threads are worthy of far more response than they are garnering. Maybe others feel spell-bound by you too. Hope not.
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Is everyone on here disassociated??
by happi2b inso i don't understand it seems to me from the posts that i have read just about everyone is disassociated.. just wondering if that's true or if i am not the only one on here still within the organization..
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saltyoldlady
Okay here goes - I think if you try typing in 144000.110mb.com/607 in your search bar you will find the lovely material I was trying to tell you about. At least that worked for me.
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Is everyone on here disassociated??
by happi2b inso i don't understand it seems to me from the posts that i have read just about everyone is disassociated.. just wondering if that's true or if i am not the only one on here still within the organization..
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saltyoldlady
Welcome Happi2be - I am in fact disassociated - a choice I made because of doctrinal errors becoming evident to me and because of the fact research into the 607 BCE view as the date of destruction for Jerusalem proved it to be point blank wrong! A marvelous book to read is The Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonnson - buy it if you can afford to do so - you will never regret the purchase. It is filled with marvelous Bible research that will prove helpful whether you decide to join or not join the WTS -
or if your Bible Study Teachers object to exposing yourself to both sides of an issue saying he has been disfellowshipped treat yourself to finding out just how a genuine Christian making a true search for truth handles himself inspite of being rejected for lovingly presenting his exquisite and painstaking research he had done to the Governing Body for their consideration. It was never his desire to be disfellowshipped nor to leave Jehovah and Jesus Christ - only to answer a Bible Student's question as to why the WTS chooses 607 over the accepted and established date of 587 BCE for the destruction of Jerusalem. You will find this book a real treat.
But if you prefer to heed their restrictions upon your search and investigative process then another book I can recommend to you that does not cause any trespassing of the boundaries being established for you by the WTS (not written by an apostate, disfellowshipped, or diassociated individual) but rather utilizing only quoted material from WTS publications and journals collected together by Edmond C. Gruss, an excellent researcher, entitled Jehovah's Witnesses - Their Claims, Doctrinal Changes and Prophetic Speculation, What does the record show? You owe it to yourself to obtain a copy of this magnificent work also and will undoubtedly want to own it personally especially should you join up so you will be abreast of what the latest correct positions on various doctrines are. You will quickly avail yourself of much information that will most likely put you in a more knowledgeable position than even the lovely sincere dedicated people studying with you.
One of my favorite threads that I have recently discovered right here on this site is one posted by Jonathan Dough. I wish I knew how to move his site to this spot so you could just click on it for your perusal but I am not yet very computer literate so maybe one of the more versatile contributors can do that for me in a future post. Wishing you many blessings in your future investigations. Salty