Posts by maksym

9

Are You Sick Of The Witnesses?

by minimus in

jw
friends

.....sometimes they just are irritating to think about..

maksym

Jesus said you would know them by their works.

In all of modern mainstream humanity we find great figures willing to step up and declare war on injustice. Some are silent like Mother Theresa of Calcutta. Some are more outspoken like Martin Luther. And some are life driven taking care of orphanages without pay, working long hours at homeless shelters, or travelling the world in some humanitarian aid. Some people give a huge portion of their money to helping rebuild houses for people that are homeless.

I could go on.

The Corporate governing body of the Watchtower members are nothing more than business men dressed in clothes of self proclaimed glory. I personally don't know of them intimately but the corporate structure is a disgrace to Christ and His message.

Do these individuals imitate Christ?

Something to think about

Peace

Maksym

62

Is anybody trying to learn the truth of the bible after leaving JW?

by EndofMysteries in

maksym

Dear EndofMysteries,

There is a way to approach the Bible in a scholarly kind of way that can lead to a well rounded sense of what it is saying. It is interesting to note that most Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox believe the same in theology by a large portion. It is only the fringe radical groups such as the Watchtower religion, Mormons, and other small groups that have a unusual and unique approach to scriptures that have deviated from the mainstream.

The following are ways that helped me after leaving the WT corporation

I bought three different Bible in different translations that had commentaries at the bottom that I could look up concerning the scriptures. Each commentary Bible was made from a different group. Some Bibles I had came from the Catholic church, another was the Orthodox church and a one or two others were from Protestant branches, such as Baptists, Lutherans, Prespyterian and so forth.

These comments they gave then I could cross reference with 99 percent of Christianity. Surprisingly the majority of the verses were commented on in the same way.

It does not surprise me that the Watchtower religion has not put out a commentary Bible because their theology changes almost as regularly as fresh magazines come out.

The next thing I did was research the history of what people thought on scriptures going back to the early writings just outside the Bible. These included key historical figures such as Luther, Augustine, St Ignacious, and others to the early history. Certain new understandings were a red flag for me.

You can find these documents such as the Didache and the writings of St. Ignatious online.

In this way you not only have a balanced understanding of what people believe today how the Bible is being translated but also how far back historically those views go.

Ironically the Watchtower has changed so much in the last 100 years it could be defined as a completely different religion by now. In contrast most of current beliefs of mainstream Christianity have held up for 2000 years. Some new beliefs for example are the rapture, which is about 100 years new.

There will be differences though.

I think these suggestions are the best place for a person to start after leaving the Corporation. We don't have to go at it alone but can rely on an exegesis developed by many learned peoples coupled with historicity to balance ourselves in getting a more clear understanding.

Thirdly, a bit of eductation on hermenutics and exegesis never hurt but I don't think that is necessary. Those are things WT members don't learn.

Last thought, I would stay away from commentary Bibles that were not written within a public peer reviewed commitee.

Also praying before starting to read is always a good thing.

Anyways, Hope that helps

Peace

Maksym

27

What all does it mean to "get out of her"? Do you need to formally disassociate?

by ataloa in

this has been nagging at me a little bit; i left 10 years ago, but am not df'd as far as i know.

i recognize the fact that this organization has no authority over me so would not bother with a letter just for them to clean up their records.. but to obey the bible command, is it enough to no longer be a part of it, or is it important to show god where you stand with a formal act of withdrawal from the organization?

what are your thoughts?.

maksym

Dear ataloa,

A letter of resignation in a corporation is merely a formality. One can leave and go work for someone else and not worry about it. The Watchtower Corporation is nothing more than a religious corporation that draws up the rules and procedures for each member to follow if they should continue.

I'm not sure if they do this now, but many years ago before you could get baptized into the Watchtower Corporation, and which you were formally a member of another church, they would require you to send a letter of withdrawal to the former church before they would baptize you.

When people leave the Watchtower Corporation they seem to take this mentality with them, as if procedures are the end all to everything in order to be official.

Not so.

I am not sure what your faith is now, but if you are tending toward becoming a Christian in another church then these trivial things are not necessary. God does read our hearts and knows where we stand with our faith. Paperwork and procedures are not really necessary.

I found that the best option for me was to just ignore those dictates. I feel it is a slap in their face to just ignore them, because they are pharisaical and it shows you ignore their authority and don't abide by it.

To further this even if I was officially ever excommunicated (disfellowshipped in WT talk), I would also ignore it. I reason I can be labeled by any group any way they want, but I won't label myself FOR them. So if that need arises I can say NO, I am not.

However, each one should make their own decision that works best for them. Some people find personal closure by doing a letter.

Hope that helps,

Peace to you

Maksym

20

After one semester it's very easy to see why the society is so afraid of university education.

by JonathanH in

jw
friends

it is so antithetical to their way of doing things, and forces you into a state of mind they hate.

it gets you out of whatever bubble you live in.

you're expected to be an adult, which is the exact opposite of what the society wants from you.. in my english 101 class we have watched r rated movies, talked about religion, learned how to recognize and dissect propoganda and my professor openly states that his goal is to challenge our prejudices and ways of thinking.

maksym

If done right, the college experience will teach you how to think critically. This is not allowed in jw land.-Nw44m

It certainly proved its worth for me.

I saw a bumber sticker on a parked car in my U parking lot today.

It said, "Don't believe anything until it has been officially proven false."

Made my day.

Peace

Maksym

184

Please dont be guilty of committing the sins you have indicted the WatchTower of

by mankkeli in

please dont be guilty of the sins you have indicted the wt of commiting.

something is common to all on this discussion board, we are quick at castigating the watchtower.

although, i understand your reasons for doing so, but i will warn you not to be guilt of the same offense the wt had committed.

maksym

Jumped to the bottom of this thread as it went on for nearly six pages.

Mankelli,

There is a fundamental problem with how you phrased your opening post. The Watchtower Corporation is a non-tax paying entity in legal status in the country that it resides. It cannot be held accountable as a person but only in tax status.

In contrast a true living breathing person can be made to be held accountable for sins or good deeds. A person is accountable to God. A corporation is not. The people running the corporation are held accountable.

So you see you really can't compare a person to a corporation. I can't be compared to Apple or Texaco. I can't be compared to Toyota or Jim's lawn service down the road.

We can thwart, complain, wrangle, make justice happen to a corporation, but the standard of a corporation is not in any way compared to the stardards set forth for individuals.

The Watchtower Society is not a human. It does not exist except on paper. It breathes not. It lives not. It's illusive. Let it go.

Take care of yourself

Peace to you

Maksym

20

After one semester it's very easy to see why the society is so afraid of university education.

by JonathanH in

jw
friends

it is so antithetical to their way of doing things, and forces you into a state of mind they hate.

it gets you out of whatever bubble you live in.

you're expected to be an adult, which is the exact opposite of what the society wants from you.. in my english 101 class we have watched r rated movies, talked about religion, learned how to recognize and dissect propoganda and my professor openly states that his goal is to challenge our prejudices and ways of thinking.

maksym

then i would advice you to read the scientific publications/books themselves and form an informed oppinion, rather than relying on what is obviously a sub-standard teaching and application of academic principles. - Bohm

Much of a college education teaches you to read independently and thus form those opinions. However, normally colleges require reading material to be peer reviewed and triangulated. This forms the basis for the present standard. Anyone going to college for any length of time would know this.

I have read many scientific journals, essays and literature and done an enormous amount of research on many subjects. Therefore I certainly have an informed opinion. It may not be the opinion you form but that is irrelevent. Nontheless there is no need to call university education substandard in the United States. Certainly there are schools that perhaps are lacking but I have found that generally speaking each one teaches similarly in style and content. My training was in the United States.

Pity that you haven't taken any - or sufficient - classes in geology or paleontology...-ziddina

The level of education and the content and exposure to a certain theory, philosophical position, or moral standard does not necesarrily impose that that belief system will prove to be true.

And you are assuming I have not taken those classes?! And you are also assuming that those supposed classes are insufficient! Hmmm.

20

After one semester it's very easy to see why the society is so afraid of university education.

by JonathanH in

jw
friends

it is so antithetical to their way of doing things, and forces you into a state of mind they hate.

it gets you out of whatever bubble you live in.

you're expected to be an adult, which is the exact opposite of what the society wants from you.. in my english 101 class we have watched r rated movies, talked about religion, learned how to recognize and dissect propoganda and my professor openly states that his goal is to challenge our prejudices and ways of thinking.

maksym

Dear JohnathanH,

I am happy for you to be in college. I too have been in college after leaving the Watchtower Corporation. I am close to my first degree. I have taken many philosophy classes, religion classes, and biology classes.

I certainly agree that the WT corporation does not like its people thinking independently, but don't trade one authority for another. Colleges only teach what is the current understanding on things and they usually tend to go sway with the pressures of politics, the scientific community, and the current public model.

After having attained a fairly high level of education, I still find it absurd the theory of evolution is being taught in schools. It is also unbelievable the status rationalism has become in understanding creation, and which has become the philosophical standard by which all things are measured.

But you are correct, any outside education besides the one source of printings from the WT corporation is a danger to them. So it is also in our secular society. I've attended three different universities both religious and public sector. A good rounding never hurts.

Peace to you and have fun.

Maksym

32

Has anyone here actually convinced someone out of the truth here?

by bottleofwater in

i'm talking about even people in their own congregation, or even a simple comment at the meeting that shut people up..

maksym

First step is to stop calling it the truth.

And yes, I have personally helped two family members come out of the Corporation.

peace

Maksym

260

Are you sure leaving the JW religion has made your life better?. Lurkers think twice

by mankkeli in

on this forum, i have carefully read most of the experiences of those who left the jw religion, i have even read experiences that have dated back to 2001, i have read the different circumstances surrounding their exits and what ensued upon leaving.

for the majority, i observed they are better remainning in the religion than leaving.

what benefit is there to strain family relationship because you want to be free?, please tell me, of what value is that freedom?,.

maksym

Dear Mankkeli,

I was thinking that you did not respond to my previous post on, I suppose page four, of this thread, but that is okay.

Leaving the watchtower corporation is like leaving someones country of birth. They may leave family and friends but it is for the betterment of the person and their immediate family either fanancial or otherwise. In turn they may lead their family out of the old country into the new after a period of time passes.

In the interim period the family may lose contact with the travelling family member. But in this same time frame the escapee family member may provide an opportunity for the others.

In mirror image of this people leaving the Jw's CAN provide for a better spiritual path.

But it is up to them to provide this. That is the key point. Because when a Watchtower member leaves they have no other place to go. If we provide them with Christ and Christianity then they are more inclined to move toward that.

Be the pioneer in Christ

Peace

Maksym

44

Absolute knowledge vs. Relativism

by Vidqun in

believing in a god is a leap of faith.

being an atheist is also a leap of faith, and that goes for the evolutionists too.

i believe in absolute truth as found in the bible.

maksym

thanks talespin