Dear Quiet One,
In the end it is where we choose to put our faith. Some choose to put it into certain theories, philosophies, or hypothesis and others look to God and the Bible for answers.
maksym
JoinedPosts by maksym
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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31
Should you ever tell tour aging parents the truth about the truth
by Star tiger insince finding out the truth about the truth myself and having successfully extricated myself and my parents about the jw's, i find myself with a new dilema that being they still believe the bible as a literal book for their salvation as i has read all of thomas paines works and how the bible is not very good for the human family, as they are of advancing years would it be inappropriate to shatter their illusions of some kind of paradise and let them flounder in a moral precipice and wonder what their lives have been about.
on the flip side once their time has come how would i feel for not telling them their false views.
at the moment i am in the deist point of view, with a tendency of the agnostic, it is quite a dilema!.
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maksym
Dear Star Tiger,
I think firstly it is more important to develop a strong post-cult personality per Steve Hassan's advice (Combatting Cult Mind Control). A new identity outside the WT mind control program in which you can clearly make decisions and hold to a strong new worldveiw is vital. I think people need a strong and robust alternative worldview and healing period before they attempt this. Otherwise I feel you should not tell them.
By breaking news to your parents now, (assuming you are still searching for that replacement worldview, or are still in the process of healing), will only give them strength to remain in something they hold strongly to. You can't break them of their worldview if yours is weak and not presentable.
On the other hand if and when you have thoroughly replaced the WT mindset with an alternative, and perhaps adapted a new spiritual path, it is then I believe it's vital that you do tell them regardless. As the old Wathtower adage says, "where will we go to", will ring in their minds. If you have moved on in a truly believable and demonstratable way, then they will perhaps see the changes you've made and question their stronghold in the WT.
On a personal note;
My mother and father have been in the Corporation all their lives. I told them my new found faith in Christ and His Church. They took it well but I think they would'nt have had as much respect for me if I told them I'm just "out there" searching or told them their views are bogus because of xy and z, if you know what I mean.
In any event if you do decide to accept Christ in your life you would be better off telling your parents because only through Him can we be saved and not through a corporation. In this event let the heartache fall where it may. Tell them first chance. If you witness for Christ then you give them a chance also to be in paradise with Him, just as the theif on the cross confessed Christ at the moment of his death.
It's never to late. Time is short.
Peace
Maksym
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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maksym
Dear QuietOne,
I'm no theologion but I think this makes basic sense for the framework. To flush this out it would need a deeper study of The Fall and it's consequences.
Genesis 3:17 tells us that the ground was cursed in which Adam was to work. It is important to remember that The Fall came about with great consequences. Man’s dominion in the Paradise was to care for the earth. The earth was to be cared for and all the animals that were under the guidance of Adam. Adam, (namely mankind) was placed in charge and by his spiritual blessings bestowed upon by God he had the ability to create a world in which there would be no pain and suffering for the creatures or harm to the earth.
Man is responsible for creation in the sense that as it is his sin which causes the suffering of creation;man sins, creation groans;- so in some unseen way our struggle in Christ vs sin also affects the creation in a larger positive way.
Eastern Orthodox Christian belief shares the western idea of original sin. In the Orthodox view, all of creation, living and dead, visible and invisible, are holistically connected. What affects one creature affects all creatures. Therefore, the suffering and mortality imposed on Adam and Eve as punishment for their sin is shared by all of creation.
Animals and all of creation groans and suffers because of the Fall. Although animals do not sin they suffer just as much as natural creation suffers because both the Earth and everything in it is intrinsically connected.
For those that only believe in a naturalistic man; namely that by our physical powers we can affect the earth this argument does not hold much weight. However, it is the spiritual man that has been given the grace of God who can wield goodness back into creation. That grace was lost after the Fall.
There are examples in the Bible in which Saints performed miracles upon creation, as well as in our modern times both to the good of animals and nature. All these things came about by a spiritual blessing on the individual in which it further transformed itself on creation.
In Christ,
Maksym -
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Readjusting Your View of "Wordly" People
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as im sure it is with most of us that were raised in the religion, our contact with wordly people was kept to a minimum.. my parents moved away from their non witness family, to a city about half an hour away.
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maksym
My advice would be to start by not using the term "worldly" in the context of anyone that is not a Jehovah's Witness.
This kind of psychological thinking tends to put your mind in the, "in" group "out" group setting or "them" and "us". Paint a broader picture and treat each person individually. Choose people that have the same morals and ethics that you uphold and admire rather than upholding to a particular theology.
Also the term "worldy" comes with a bit of a connotation of judgement. Worldly in the Biblical sense means people that are not following Christ and have been taken over by the vain philosophies and passions rather than Christian virtues. There are therefore "worldly" people in all religions. Some Jehovah's witnesses are very worldly.
Redefine the word as to it having a more precise meaning other than, any human being not baptized in the Watchtower Corporation and calling themselves a Jehovah's Witness.
Gradually gain new friends and you will eventually replace those that are conditional in the Watchtower. When you reach a level of security you can say goodbye to all those that treat you on a conditional level.
Be trusting and cautious. You will have ups and downs. I chose this route and have replaced everyone I knew in the Watchtower Corporation with 10 times as many friends. I couldn't be happier and more secure. I also found that many outside the WT walls are great individuals that love me dearly and are very much respected.
Also rather than look at external things such as drinking and smoking look at a persons heart condition.
Peace
Maksym
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47
New here...need some support
by Freeof1914 infirst of all i am happy to be here..this site has been an invaluable tool which helped me get to the point where i am today.
i was born and raised as a jehovah's witness and i am now 30 yrs old.
my entire family are die hard witnesses; pioneers, elders, bethel etc.
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maksym
Welcome to the forum, Free.
I guess the best thing I can say to you is to love your wife more than ever. Love conquers all things. If your moving away from the cult mentality shows you can change for the positive and love her more than when you were "in" mentally or otherwise, then that would be a fine example of how people outside of their mind control program can be good and loving people without the JW mentality and control. This will confuse her and perhaps make her question why you have improved as a husband since you are exiting the cult. She would see the positive changes.
Also you may want to put forth efforts to pray more and perhaps, not in a showmanship kind of way, but in front of her, to only show that you still love God and believe in Him if, you still do. This will show her you are not leaving God and Christ just because you are leaving the Corporation.
Pray before meals for example and pray for them out loud. Be a good provider spiritualy despite your moving out of the mentality of the Watchtower.
There is nothing more powerful in influencing someone than showing them love and praying for them. Showing that you are doing fine spiritually outside the Watchtower and being a better person for your family is a great example of proving their is success outside the cult.
This approach that I used won two people of my family outside of the Watchtower and into Christianity, and all without a word of argument. As they say, 'actions speak louder than words'.
To keep the peace show that you support her for her decisions to continue in the WT but do not encourage it. Use yourself as a guide for her to follow to become a better spouse and spiritual person rather than a someone that is drifting into unknown territory without direction. However this take a developing a new spiritual journey and a post cult personality. This will be your strongest asset in the long run.
A good example I have experienced is when I was invited to go to a JW gathering barbeque. I didn't want to go but I did it for family. I then would invite people over from my church so that my JW family could be exposed to them.
However when we leave JW corporation we need to develop a new personality and worldview that takes time. Getting Steve Hassan's books as mentioned by other posters above will start this process. I would suggest to read those books.
Peace
Maksym
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22
Who were the anointed between 100 and 1879 AD?
by blondie inwho were the anointed between 100 and 1879 ad?
*** kingdom approached chap.
17 p. 344 par.
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maksym
So based on this logic the Bible was compiled by apostates; as it was not completely accepted in the Catholic/Orthodox format until around the year 395. And I suppose this means that a protestant true servant of Jehovah decided that the omission of certain books was okay because the Jw's use the protestant Bible.
Ridiculous logic by the WT.
Peace
Maksym
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49
Died and came back with memories !
by oldflame infriends,.
i have a story to share with you and i hope that it does not bore you as it did just the opposite for me .
after hearing what i was told i was so pumped up with holy spirit i thought i was going to crawl right out of my own skin .
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maksym
God bless you Oldflame,
That story is inspirational. I hope you family is doing well now. Thank you for that story.
May Christ shine His light on you and grant you great mercies.
Peace
Maksym
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Question about the memorial :)
by TimothyT ini have no doubt that in a few weeks when the campaign to spread memorials invites is underway that my good friend, the jw, will give me an invitation.
she has already told me that she would support me when walking in, telling me that i could sit next to her and she wouldnt give a damn what others would think that she was encouraging a disfellowshipped person.
she is very sweet, and i appreciate her thoughts.. however, i would rather not go because i believe the whole thing is done wrong anyway.
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maksym
Quote from Sulla:GromitSK, no. The practice has been, until recently, that the priest or deacon would consume the "wine," rather than distribute it. I think the Orthodox do this, as well. But this is because Jesus is equally present in either bread or wine. So, not really similar.
Just to point out an error. I am Orthodox Christian and we distribute communion to all the faithful who want to participate. We serve the bread and wine (the body and blood of Christ) together in the same chalice or communion cup. The faithful receive both together. We have been doing this unchanged for almost 2000 years.
Not at all the same as to the reject Jesus party the WT event holds.
Peace
Maksym
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66
Would/Do you wear a Cross around your neck ??
by Prisca inafter all that we had drummed into us about not the cross, and particularly about not venerating the symbol itself, i have been wondering about this issue.. so, what are your views about wearing a cross around your neck ?
is it just a fashion accessory, or does it mean something to you ?.
inquiring minds would like to know
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maksym
@Bella15,
Great post #467 above,
You understand the meaning of the cross as I do. I could not have explained it better.
I wear a cross at all times just for the reasons you listed. It also gives a witness to Christ.
In Christ,
Maksym
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maksym
I believe life starts when the sperm meets the egg and becomes a zygote. Implantation is the next step.
I believe abortion is morally and ethically wrong on all levels.
I believe it is murder.
I also believe people of a nation have a right to participate politically for their morals and hence if the people don't want abortion then it should be illegal. If those morals come from a religious background or any other source then it is fair play to make a political pressure to enforce them.
All laws ever made hinge on an underlying moral or ethic. The source of those morals and ethics can come from a variety of sources such as tradition, religion, culture, philosophy, attitudes, etc.
Peace
Maksym