Quendi

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Posts by Quendi

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  234

  Suicide - How many do you know within the JWs

  by Lady Lee in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  thw wts likes to play games with their statistics.

  one interesting but truly tragic is the number of jwhovah's witnesses who commit suicie.. now i suspect that if a person commits suicide shortly before or after they are disfellowshipped then the elders would say that person wasn't a witness or that they had done something so terrible that they were too guilty to admit it and by their action of committing suicide they pretty much declared they were no longer a jw.. yup fancy talk to make sure any crap didn't fall on them.. so my question.. do you know of cases like this?

  if so then can you answer a few more questions.. had this person been dfed or in real danger of being dfed or whatever the equivalent is if they were never baptized?.

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  Quendi

  I am glad that your best friend survived his suicide attempt, hoser. His death would have harmed so many people and for a long period of time as well. That was what happened in my circumstances. I grieved for many years after Tom’s death but have eventually come to grips with it. Your friend is going to need your help as well as that of the professional kind. Keep loving and supporting him. I hope that eventually his wife will give him the love and support he needs as well. But so insidious is the influence the cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses wields over its rank-and-file members, that your friend’s wife may never change her mind.

  Quendi
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  234

  Suicide - How many do you know within the JWs

  by Lady Lee in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  thw wts likes to play games with their statistics.

  one interesting but truly tragic is the number of jwhovah's witnesses who commit suicie.. now i suspect that if a person commits suicide shortly before or after they are disfellowshipped then the elders would say that person wasn't a witness or that they had done something so terrible that they were too guilty to admit it and by their action of committing suicide they pretty much declared they were no longer a jw.. yup fancy talk to make sure any crap didn't fall on them.. so my question.. do you know of cases like this?

  if so then can you answer a few more questions.. had this person been dfed or in real danger of being dfed or whatever the equivalent is if they were never baptized?.

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  Quendi

  I’ve related this experience before but want to share it again. My best friend killed himself back in 1986. He had left his wife and two young sons but wanted to salvage his marriage. His marital problems were compounded by his bipolar disorder and the fact that he was also a gay man. There were other difficulties and all of them contributed to his suicide at age 32.

  He had not been “disciplined” in any way: no public or private reproof, and he had not been disfellowshipped. Nevertheless, he had no need or respect for the elders. Our last conversation turned into a heated argument at one point when I begged him to go to the elders for help. I still hear him shouting at me, “Never say that to me again! I want nothing to do with them!” He killed himself two weeks later.

  I think the elders tried to help him, but his problems were far beyond their reach or ability to handle. My friend refused to seek professional help as well even though I urged him to do so. In the end, he made the decision to end his life by himself, but I also don’t doubt that there were elements of this religion which were factors. The toxic shame it imposes on many played a significant role and all the more so since he was a gay man and was filled with self-loathing. Being immersed in as homophobic a culture as Jehovah’s Witnesses are certainly did not contribute to his mental and emotional wellbeing. Looking back on his experience, I was very fortunate not to have met the same end.

  Quendi
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  28

  "Apostasy took root and flourished" (WT, July 15, 2013, page 18)

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

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  Quendi

  The canonicity of the Bible has been a topic of longstanding interest for me and so I am very glad to see this thread. I want to contribute a few thoughts on this and ask questions as well but will do so later. For now I will say that two of the accepted canonical books I’ve always had trouble with are Song of Solomon and Philemon. The former is passionate, even sublime, love poetry. But it certainly has no place in the accepted catalogue. It contributes nothing to our understanding of God and his purposes regardless of how grand and beautiful its language is. As for the latter, I don’t see how a letter that was nothing more than personal correspondence between Paul and a fellow believer should ever have been considered divinely inspired.

  I have grown distrustful of any and everything the WTS has published on this topic. The scholarship and reliability of WTS research are quite low and I am looking further afield in my study. The Internet has been a great help as have some resources with local colleges and universities in metropolitan Denver. Clearly, I have much to learn and I look forward to some exciting discoveries. As for the Bible itself, I hold it in the highest regard. The question I now face with it is distinguishing what can be called “inspired” from the thoughts and opinions of its writers which are not inspired. I still read the New World Translation; but it is only one of many translations I consider. The New English Bible and the Jerusalem Bible are two of my current favorites, especially the Jerusalem Bible because I still believe that the Divine Name should be rendered as such and not replaced with titles and adjectives.

  Quendi
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  23

  WHY TRUST "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE"

  by Oubliette in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  Quendi

  bookmark
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  26

  Not so special special talk

  by stillin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what's new?.

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  Quendi

  As the years went by and no “new world” appeared, all the “Special Talk” eventually meant to me was the end of the Memorial “season.” Even that was stale because the “season” that began with so much fanfare and a bang went out with a whimper. This year saw it close in early April so I suppose the only thing to promote now will be the upcoming summer district conventions.

  Quendi
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  52

  My latest university experience...

  by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this isn't a jw experience, but for those of you that have been following my life, i thought i'd have a drink and share this strange event in my post-jw life.. for you wonderful newbies, you can catch up on highlights of my story in the few threads i've started here.

  i'm finishing the junior year of my engineering degree and the classes are hard as hell.

  i used to be among the smartest students in the room until i hit the 300 level university courses.

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  Quendi

  Congratulations, Billy! Those who have told you that your professor prefers your real world experience to the book-learning of the young whiz kids have hit the nail right on the head. I was told the same thing when I was an undergraduate studying for my bachelor’s degree. One of my professors told me that I was his favorite student because I was the only one who asked questions which revealed a thinking brain and a real desire to learn.

  As for your experience with the really difficult course work, that also is what I expected you would find. The 100- and 200-level courses are designed to weed out those students who either don’t have the ability to do the work or don’t want to put in the effort. Once you get to the junior- and senior-level classes, the real learning begins. I saw that when I studied geography and mathematics, particularly the latter discipline.

  I still remember my “Advanced Mathematics” professor saying on the very first day of his class, “Ladies and Gentlemen, the preliminaries are over. Calculus and differential equations are the easy stuff. From now on, you will be studying real mathematics.” He was absolutely right. I learned that true algebra and true arithmetic are more difficult than calculus ever was. You are seeing the same with your courses in physical chemistry and thermodynamics. But all of us are proud of you and wish you every success. I have all the confidence in the world in you, and evidently so does at least one of your professors.

  Quendi
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  535

  AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

  http://www.jwactivists.org.

  facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

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  Quendi

  I have finally made the time to watch the video and want to give heartfelt thanks to all involved. Right now, all I can offer is moral support for AAWA but I hope to do more later. As for the name, I have no problem with it. I think it is very important to make it clear that people involved are not Watchtower activists because that would imply agreement with the organization’s aims, methods and goals. Instead, the anti-Watchtower wording clears up any confusion about AAWA’s stance vis-à-vis the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

  Quendi
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  20

  Edward Dunlap Talks About The 1980 Witch Hunt At Bethel and The Faithful And Discrete Slave

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etghbmuurwg.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkgmfqab2m8.

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  Quendi

  Thirty-three years ago, the WTS was a different organization. Fred Franz was its president and even though he did not wield the power of his predecessors, he was regarded as primus inter pares, first among equals. He was still looked to as “seer and oracle” in the organization. There was no need to stress the role the Governing Body had apart from all others professing to be of the “anointed remnant.”

  But with the death of Fred Franz in 1992 and the suceeding deaths of all those who were associated and had served along with him, problems began to arise. There were no men who had been groomed as suitable replacements for the Old Guard because the WTS never thought the twenty-first century would still see this world intact. The organization was confident that Armageddon would strike before the twentieth century ended. With no C.T. Russell, J.F. Rutherford or even a N.H. Knorr at the helm, men who had a firm grip on matters, a leadership vacuum opened at the highest levels in the WTS, and there has been an ongoing struggle to close it.

  Ed Dunlap may have seen the seeds of the collective papacy now running the WTS planted back in 1980. He was most likely not alone in predicting this. But I doubt if he and others foresaw the crisis that has precipitated its creation. For it has not simply been the scramble for power that has led to this development, but also the growing numbers of those professing to be anointed has contributed as well. These “newly minted” Memorial partakers have also been clamoring for a say in how the WTS is to be led. They staked their claim to authority on the long-held teaching that all those claiming to be of the anointed remnant made up the “faithful and discreet slave class.” I believe the “new light” we are seeing is a pushback by the Governing Body against them in particular. It has also served the additional desire on the Governing Body’s part to stifle any kind of dissent regardless of its origin. I will be very interested to see what reaction the rank-and-file Witnesses will have to the information in The Watchtower. I am willing to bet it will be one of meek acceptance.

  Quendi
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  32

  How many ways....

  by Lady Lee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ... can you name that the wts hurts people?.

  two big ones for me:.

  it pushes people to the edge and when they commit suicide they say: "well he wasn't really a jw anyways soit has nothing to do with us".. it pushes people so much to do more and more and more that they get depressed, and physically sick.

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  Quendi

  As a gay man, I can completely agree with what Lady Lee said about what this cult has done to LGBT people. There is simply no place for them in the organization. How many, I wonder, have entered into loveless and unhappy marriages because they were told this was the natural and normal way for all human beings? I have seen children robbed of their childhood as they are forced to don formal clothing and go door-to-door proselytizing for the cult as well as foregoing the activities other children enjoy. I have seen many let their abilities and talents wither because they were told that developing them would mean becoming part of “Satan’s world.” There is the time lost attending pointless and useless meetings which furnish nothing for enjoyment of life.

  Quendi
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  57

  Logical Fallacies in WT Publications

  by Oubliette in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  Quendi

  I don’t have much to contribute here but I wanted to address this false reasoning from WTS doctrine. It concerns placing restrictions on persons who have been reinstated: no verbal participation in meetings, offering prayer, pioneering, etc. The reinstated person can only attend meetings and participate in the field service until the elders decide to restore the other “privileges.” I don’t have the relevant publications with me and so can only reference from memory.

  The argument put forward was that reinstated people were still “spiritually weak” and so were incapable of fully participating in the Witness community. They “obviously” needed time to regain their strength and it was the job of the elders to “lovingly” oversee their continued spiritual recovery and progress. I will also add that not a single scripture was referenced or quoted in justifying the imposing of restrictions on these people. Furthermore, the term of these restrictions is left entirely to the elders to determine, again without any kind of biblical support for granting them this power. Instead, the WTS justifies the policy with the use of phrases as “it is obvious” and “it seems logical to believe.”

  The argument seems to go this way. You were disfellowshipped because of a deep spiritual flaw or weakness. But you were reinstated because you exhibited true repentance. Nevertheless, since you were disfellowshipped because of spiritual weakness, the discipline meted out wasn’t enough and further restrictions are necessary to recover your spiritual health. This seems to me to be an example of a post hoc, ergo propter hoc argument. The Latin phrase can be translated as “after this, therefore because of this.”

  I also liked Terry’s refutation of the mentally diseased analogy used against WTS dissidents. Mental diseases are not contagious, and contact with those mentally ill will not result in contracting their disease. But the WTS is playing on the fear the word “disease” will arouse to coerce its followers to shun any and all who disagree with the cult and its leaders.

  Quendi