Posts by Quendi

4

Songs for Today's Jehovah's Witnesses

by thetrueone in

can you think of some songs suitable for today's jws ?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2vbmhoypv8.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wkyxa_nmvq&feature=related.

Blind Allegiance to G.B. supported by scripture?

by honorsthesis in

hey everyone,.

i have been getting in on going debates with brothers in the congregation about the role of the governing body.

i feel that jehovah would not want us to blindly follow a particular g.b.

Quendi

I didn't know anything about "Honorsthesis" history, but I wanted to contribute to this thread anyway in the hopes that what I shared would have a positive impact for anyone who read it.

Quendi

47

Blind Allegiance to G.B. supported by scripture?

by honorsthesis in

hey everyone,.

i have been getting in on going debates with brothers in the congregation about the role of the governing body.

i feel that jehovah would not want us to blindly follow a particular g.b.

I had an interesting discussion about the role of a "Governing Body" with some JW friends a few months ago. The WTS says that the Governing Body of today are successors to the original Governing Body set up in the first century. However, a close examination of the role of the Twelve Apostles and older men in the Jerusalem congregation shows they had nothing to do with administrative matters in the early Church. Neither did they issue any doctrinal decrees for all congregations to follow with the exception of the circumcision question. Nowhere do we see them making appointments except the seven men who oversaw food distribution to Christian widows in Jerusalem in the days immediately following the founding of the Church at Pentecost.

None of the epistles, gospels, and other New Testament writings talk about a governing body or group of men charged with oversight and administration in the Christian Church. And it is interesting that of the Twelve Apostles, only John, Matthew, and Peter were inspired to write anything of importance. Paul, who wrote fourteen epistles to early Christians, was not a member of the Jerusalem congregation even though he was accounted an "apostle"--though not one of the Twelve.

Acts 1:20-22 says that a replacement for Judas was needed so that there would be Twelve witnesses of Jesus' resurrection. And when the question of food distribution arose, Acts 6:1-6 shows that the Twelve Apostles, while acknowledging the importance of this "necessary business", saw themselves as preachers first. They handed off the administration of the food distribution problem to others and devoted themselves "to prayer and the ministry of the word."

I believe the New Testament shows there was no "governing body" that acted as administrators of the first century church. Rather, individual congregations chose their own officers and occupied themselves with the preaching work. They didn't send back reports to Jerusalem. They did not ask the apostles and older men there to oversee any aspect of the preaching work. They certainly cooperated together, but that was for the sole purpose of preaching the gospel and winning converts to their religion. The New Testament writings were certainly circulated among the various congregations and these inspired works did help Christians understand many things, but those were directly inspired by God's holy spirit and weren't issued as a result of discussions by some self-apponted body of elitists. In my view, no allegiance is owed to some "Governing Body" for such an arrangement is unscriptural. The WTS's reasoning is specious at best and should not be relied upon. A Christian's Bible-trained conscience, created by reading the Bible for oneself, should guide him. Also we can take the disciple James' inspired counsel and ask for divine wisdom when confronted with puzzling situations. --James 1: 5-8

Quendi

33

2011 Convention Theme

by dozy in

the 2011 convention theme is..................(drum roll).

.

"let god's kingdom come.

Quendi

A couple of years ago I remember sharing with a JW friend of mine this sentiment. "If ever the end was coming soon," I remarked, "then surely it would have done so in the span of 1989 to 1991. Look what happened during those years. Communism collapsed in Europe, apartheid ended in South Africa, the Communist leadership of China nearly lost control of their country, and the Soviet Union imploded. People were shouting 'Peace and Security!' at the top of their lungs. I expected the sky to split open any day during those years and Armageddon to commence. But nothing happened, did it?" The look on my friend's face was interesting. For a fleeting moment he seemed to consider the possibility that the WTS was not to be trusted, but he quickly dismissed that thought and started parroting the party line.

Just yesterday I had a JW friend tell me that he thinks the current unrest sweeping through North Africa and Southwest Asia might be an indication that the end is 'right around the corner.' I let him talk but thought to myself, "Here they go again!" I'm sure my friend isn't the only Witness hoping and praying that the present upheavals in the Muslim world are some kind of dress rehearsal for the end. But their hopes are doomed to disappointment. I'm sure that as tempting as it may be for the WTS to use the current crises as a pretext to believe Armageddon is nigh, the 1975 experience may well prompt the Society to keep its mouth shut and not even bring them up at next summer's conventions.

The one or two contacts I still have in the organization tell me that Witnesses are growing tired and worn out. Sure, there are the fairy-tale experiences breathlessly relayed in the publications and from the platform that briefly set hearts aglow, but the truth of the matter is that such experiences are few and far between. Many Witnesses, especially those living in developed nations, can't relate to them anymore because they don't see them happening in their own lands and local territories. The Society's own statistics show that growth is slowing and even contracting in the developed world. Hence the cry that the kingdom is near as a means to reinvigorate flagging interest. Nor should we be surprised at attempts made to make present-day problems look like fulfillment of Bible prophecy. But it is all in vain.

The WTS's efforts remind me of the exertions made by the prophets of Baal in their contest with Elijah. Despite their shouting and putting on of grand appearances, they did not get the reply they hoped for. "But there was no voice, and there was no one answering," 1 Kings 18:26 tells us. The same will prove true for the Governing Body of the WTS.

33

2011 Convention Theme

by dozy in

the 2011 convention theme is..................(drum roll).

.

"let god's kingdom come.

Quendi

Some 36 years after 1975's arrival, the WTS is attempting to inject some energy into its weary troops. What good will it do? Will JWs come away from next summer's district conventions reenergized and more determined than ever to preach house-to-house? Will the kingdom be any more real than it has been in past years/decades? I can hear the talk in the different congregations now as people try to get others excited about the convention program and how nice it will be to see old friends again, etc. For myself, this will be the sixth consecutive year I won't be going and all I can say about that is, "HALLELUJAH!!"

179

Were you 'alive in '75' and how was that year for you?

by punkofnice in

i was a junior borgite in 1975. i remeber looking at the calendar at work in october and thinking: 'armageddon isn't here yet.....and it doesn't feel like it will be here anytime soon either!'.

i was surprised that jehovah hadn't obeyed the superior command to bring the big 'a' as instructed to him by fred franz.

how dare god disobey the jw leader!!!!!.

Quendi

I was studying with JWs that year and got baptized in January 1976. The man who studied with me was excited about the possibility of the end coming in 1975, but he wisely counseled me not to put my spiritual eggs in that basket. "Your dedication to Jehovah will not end when Armageddon comes. Remember, your dedication to him is lifelong," he used to say to me. I'm glad I listened to him, so when 1975 came and went my disappointment was rather mild. The other elders in my congregation used to tell all of us not to 'watch the clock' but to be busy in the ministry. Most of us took that advice.

Now I'm out of the WTS. I look back on the 1970s and remember the tremendous excitement they had. Yes, the WTS aggressively pushed 1975, all but saying that the end would surely come in that year. It took five years before the Society owned up to this, finally saying in 1980 that it bore some responsibility for leading people on. But the damage had been done to many people by then and the Society's mea culpa was too little, too late.

I'm grateful now to be putting widening distance between me and the WTS. My dedication to Jehovah still stands, and it remains a lifelong one. I am glad that I have cast aside the millstone around my neck that the WTS was, and can live as good a life as I know how.

18

Get to the point!

by Mr. Falcon in

two jehovah's witnesses walk up to a house and knock on the door.

a younger man wearing a t-shirt with all kinds of swirl-patterns on it (think tie-dye, but not quite) answers the door and the first jw goes into his presentation.

he is offering the watchtower on the "occult" (cue spooky music).

Quendi

You'd think that after nearly seventy years of Theocratic Ministry School and Service Meeting training, most JWs would be quite adept at the door-to-door ministry. But they aren't and never will be. For my part, I was quite good at it because I had discovered that it was very important to observe my surroundings when approaching the door and to listen quite intently to the householder. I asked questions that indicated a real interest in the person at the door, not what the magazines I was carrying were about. I learned to respond to whatever my householders said and attempted to find common ground with them. Most Witnesses are programmed to give presentations in a wooden and awkward fashion. Then they wonder why they get the door slammed in their faces.

The fact is the field ministry is very unnatural and most people will never be good at it no matter how many School and Service Meeting parts they give and observe. And many JWs participate only because they have to. They don't have a real interest in their neighbors. They don't know how to start and cultivate relationships and friendships. The householder can detect this immediately, and so will reject both the messenger and the message. Who can blame them?

The experience given at the start of this thread is typical. Based on a person's physical appearance, the Witness assumes he is involved in the occult. That absolves the Witness from any responsibility to present an interesting and coherent message. They blame the householder and then move on to the next door where the same sorry pattern repeats itself. When my service partner would commend me for having a good conversation with a householder and ask how I did it, I would tell them they needed to be emotionally invested in helping our neighbors. Many that I talked to never grasped that, nor did they attempt to develop the necessary and proper attitude to make the field ministry easier for them and their listeners.

Well, I'm long gone from the WTS and don't go door-to-door anymore. It will be interesting for me to be on the other side of the door when and if any Witnesses ever knock on it. I imagine I will be subjected to the same kind of bad presentations that my neighbors have had to endure. But you'd think that the WTS would finally recognize that the poor results numberwise that the field ministry is giving prove it does not have the backing and blessing of the holy spirit despite the marvelous and wonderful experiences one hears at meetings, assemblies, and conventions. Of course, the organization will never admit this, more's the pity.

217

Feb. 15th WT - WT Society says DFed Ones are Lawless- Just Like Demons

by flipper in

jw
friends

i would assume that some or a good number of us here as normal humans in this society - consider " lawless " actions to include murder , robbery, extortion, rape, child abuse, war , terrorism, etc.

the wt society has their own definition of what's considered " lawless ".

anything that's considered a disfellowshipping offense in the jehovah's witnesses is now considered " lawless ".

Quendi

Let me add one more comment about DJ's outbursts. Clearly he has legal training and has quoted "chapter and verse" in his posts. So that does give him a level of expertise here which many of us (including Yours Truly) lack. The problem is that he's still as blind as a mole. The Pharisees, scribes, and lawyers of Jesus' day were also very learned men, and they could quote the Scriptures and rabbinical law to support their thoroughly incorrect reasonings. DJ is in the same sorry class. He knows the minutiae of the law. He has much practice in applying it. But he can't see the forest for the trees. The WTS's tyrannical approach cannot be justified on moral and scriptural grounds no matter how sound its position is legally.

His participation on this board is a direct violation of WTS policy for which he could be disfellowshipped if the elders in his congregation found out about it. He may be an elder himself, but whether or not, his participation here is completely reprehensible from the WTS view. Why does he continue? Maybe it is only to gratify his own ego. Or to put it another way, "The lamp of the body is the eye. If, then, your eye is simple, your whole body will be bright.; but if your eye is wicked, your whole body will be dark. If in reality the light that is in you is darkness, how great that darkness is!" (Matthew 6:22, 23) DJ's responses to others, his hatred and contempt for us, show plainly in his responses; and that indicates his own spiritual darkness.

217

Feb. 15th WT - WT Society says DFed Ones are Lawless- Just Like Demons

by flipper in

jw
friends

i would assume that some or a good number of us here as normal humans in this society - consider " lawless " actions to include murder , robbery, extortion, rape, child abuse, war , terrorism, etc.

the wt society has their own definition of what's considered " lawless ".

anything that's considered a disfellowshipping offense in the jehovah's witnesses is now considered " lawless ".

Quendi

And you've got to love the way DJ plays semantics about the meaning of legal terms in a way that reminds me of Jesus speaking of the false shepherds of his day. Yes, DJ loves to "strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel." That's right, SCOTUS "vacating" its own previous decision is not the same as "reversing" it even though that is its practical effect. But that is hardly surprising. DJ merely confirms what I said earlier about his reasoning being "specious". Jesus also said that if a blind man follows a blind man, both would fall into a pit. The WTS is one such blind guide, and it is clear that he is following them in lock step. More's the pity.

I marvel at him, not because he is obviously clever at manipulation and lying, but that he has seemingly convinced himself that he and the WTS are righteous and are walking in the truth. But that has been the pattern of propagandists throughout history, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. And I still don't understand his rationale for associating with disfellowshipped people like myself. That is a clear violation of the February 15,2011 issue of The Watchtower. I also don't understand why he hasn't answered the questions Flipper has raised earlier. He can only quote from WTS publications (answering me from the 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, for example) or come up with long-winded gobbledygook that makes sense to no one but himself. Sayswho has him pegged correctly: a pathetic drone. The more he posts here, the more obvious that becomes.

@Flipper: By the way, my friend, I am a man, not a woman. But with a handle like "Quendi" (borrowed from J.R.R. Tolkien), it can be difficult to discern gender.

217

Feb. 15th WT - WT Society says DFed Ones are Lawless- Just Like Demons

by flipper in

jw
friends

i would assume that some or a good number of us here as normal humans in this society - consider " lawless " actions to include murder , robbery, extortion, rape, child abuse, war , terrorism, etc.

the wt society has their own definition of what's considered " lawless ".

anything that's considered a disfellowshipping offense in the jehovah's witnesses is now considered " lawless ".

Quendi

The profound ignorance that djeggnog displays is most unfortunate. However, none of us who have read his previous posts are surprised. I will say this about his stare decisis nonsense. If SCOTUS found itself bound to stand by all earlier decisions it has rendered then neither Jones v. Opelika nor Minersville v. Gobeitis would ever have been reversed . It is djeggnogg who clearly does not know what he is talking about .

Despite this, I am glad that he is making your views known here. For it is obvious that he is a 'wolf in sheep's covering'. Reading his posts, larded as they are with specious reasoning and downright falsehoods, alerts the rest of us to the dangers of association with the WTS religion. However, I wish him no ill will. Instead, it is my hope that he will closely and honestly examine WTS religion and practice. Maybe that will open his eyes to the truth he claims to love.