Posts by Quendi

17

The WTS and Same-Sex Marriage

by Quendi in

we all know the wts position on same-sex marriage, but i thought it was interesting to see this piece on its website.

i think what intrigues me the most is that the wts approach is, as i once told the elders on my judicial committee, "inadequate, incomplete and insufficient".

the peice then goes on to give the typical fairy-tale solution to what it perceives as a problem with the experience of someone they call "nathan" and how he was able to completely change thanks to god's holy spirit working on him.

Quendi

What's really interesting about this piece being highlighted on the WTS website is that it was taken from the 8 April 2005 issue of Awake! That was seven years ago. So that means the WTS has made no change in its stance and is firmly opposed to any kind of same-sex relationship no matter what secular governments think or do. Of course, this is the same organization that warned people against entering interracial marriages too, although in far milder and much less belligerent words than the Awake! article does.

The WTS has often been accused of being very Americo-centric and I think this instance is a glaring proof of that. While the article is seven years old, only now, when same-sex marriage is starting to gain acceptance in American public opinion and the American president has finally endorsed it, has the WTS seen fit to once more denounce it by making it the banner piece on its website. The Governing Body wasn't too concerned when Belgium, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain and South Africa made same-sex marriages legal. But with the waves of same-sex marriage finally washing its own doorstep, the WTS has evidently decided to once more warn Witnesses that they can have absolutely no empathy, sympathy or tolerance of same-sex marriage.

I want to thank AK MCGrath, CoCo and Disillusioned Lost-Lamb for their remarks on this topic.

Quendi

17

The WTS and Same-Sex Marriage

by Quendi in

we all know the wts position on same-sex marriage, but i thought it was interesting to see this piece on its website.

i think what intrigues me the most is that the wts approach is, as i once told the elders on my judicial committee, "inadequate, incomplete and insufficient".

the peice then goes on to give the typical fairy-tale solution to what it perceives as a problem with the experience of someone they call "nathan" and how he was able to completely change thanks to god's holy spirit working on him.

Quendi

We all know the WTS position on same-sex marriage, but I thought it was interesting to see this piece on its website. I think what intrigues me the most is that the WTS approach is, as I once told the elders on my judicial committee, "inadequate, incomplete and insufficient". But there is more. The peice then goes on to give the typical fairy-tale solution to what it perceives as a problem with the experience of someone they call "Nathan" and how he was able to completely change thanks to God's holy spirit working on him. You can read about it here:

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20050408a/article_01.htm

It's not simply a matter of the usual WTS whitewash of a very complex issue, but the arrogance and stupidity manifested in its discussion. First it condemns people by taking Bible verses out of context and misinterpreting and mistranslating original language words. Then it quotes only those sources who agree with the WTS stance. Other voices are drowned in silence, being only vaguely and dismissively alluded to.

If anybody thinks there aren't gay Witnesses still active in the religion who are also deeply in the closet, then he is only fooling himself. From individual congregations to a clandestine but active gay community in Brooklyn Bethel, the WTS has always had gay members in its ranks. Many of these people have partners with whom they have cohabited for years. Yet the WTS wants to wish this away in the cornfield and act that all of its people are as straight as an arrow's flight.

If it weren't for the fact that the WTS's actions have caused much pain, misery and suffering to many of its adherents I'd laugh. How many young men and women have even been driven to suicide by this organization's stance on their real nature? How many families have been torn apart because the WTS demands that the family's gay son or daughter be shunned? How many have unwisely entered into marriage because the WTS either openly or surreptitiously suggested that marriage was a "cure" for their homosexuality, thus setting the stage for future disaster?

Whether the WTS wants it or not, same-sex marriage will eventually be legalized in the United States. I'm sure it isn't happy that its home state of New York has already sanctioned it, and that despite heavy opposition from the Roman Catholic Church among others. It will be interesting to see what directions it will give publishers about handling same-sex couples they encounter in their house-to-house canvassing work. Doubtless it'll botch that just as they have other issues relating to marriage as in the Selma and Steve mess.

Quendi

39

"Awake" 1973 says Witnesses should not play CHESS it's EVIL!!!

by Witness 007 in

awake 73 march 22 p.12 "the spirit of competition between players can lead to unplesant circumstances...in some homes tensions linger long past checkmate...chess has been a game of war since it originated...the games conection to war is obvious....a play substitue for the art of war...there is a danger of stirring uo competition with one another even developing hostility with one another something the bible warns against....what effect does playing chess have on one?

is it a wholesome effect?

....there are questions regarding it that each one who plays chess should consider.".

Quendi

I'm sure that another game which the WTS would condemn is backgammon. After all, it promotes aggression, gambling and stirs up the competitive spirit too. There is no end to what the WTS will do to control its followers. I didn't know about its flip-flopping on chess--a game that has been characterized as "the gynmasium of the mind"--although that doesn't surprise me.

If this organization stuck only to reading and studying the Bible, all would be well. But it hasn't. It has gone far "beyond the things that are written" and walked down the same ruinous path that other tyrants and despots have. That is because it takes what it calls "Bible-based principles" and bends them to the fracture point. It does this because the rank-and-file lets them. They buckle under to the threat of disfellowshipping and subsequent shunning and so do nothing to safeguard and exercise their God-given free will and power of reason.

“It may be objected that devout students of the Bible have often proved to be the sternest fanatics. But the answer is easy. They were fanatics because they were students, not of the whole Bible, but of some one fragment of it to which all else was sacrificed.”

—B.F. Westcott

Quendi

18

Occasional feelings of sadness about the JW experience

by Mr Facts in

do you feel occassionally sad when you flash back at your life as a jw, may be you occassionally become overshadowed by regrets and bitter feelings and not knowing exactly what caused it.. some regretted wasted life while others regretted being trapped in what they feel was a cult.

do you experience anything similar.

how do you usually surmon up courage to stand up and forge ahead?.

Quendi

I'm sorry for your experience, lumper, and I wish I could say it was unusual or uncommon. Sadly, it is not but is instead a story one hears all too often about Jehovah's Witnesses. I got baptized in January 1976 and well remember the frenzied days before that when the WTS built up expectations around "the critical year 1975" as one issue of The Watchtower put it. Few of us were unaffected by the propaganda then which the WTS was quick to disavow when none of its predictions and expectations bore fruit.

I was a college student then and dropped out because of belief that such education was worthless and would only damage if not destroy one's spirituality. Fortunately, I eventually returned to school and got that diploma, a decision I never regretted. But I could do so because I had no family responsibilities and so could pursue some of my own dreams. Others were not as fortunate as I was and they find themselves marooned on a barren shore. But for some thirty years I labored in the WTS vineyard, pioneering for two years and postponing decisions and actions I should have made because that was "worldly" and "independent" thinking. What a fool I was!

But now we are out and must find the strength and energy to rebuild our lives. For many, that will be easier said than done. But I am convinced that it is the right course. I'm glad that lumper never gave up on Jesus Christ, the true leader of Christians. I am walking my own spiritual path without the burdens the WTS imposed and am much happier as well. If we are on that barren shore, let us move inland and discover the good things awaiting us. I did that and I wish the same for all of us.

Quendi

18

Occasional feelings of sadness about the JW experience

by Mr Facts in

do you feel occassionally sad when you flash back at your life as a jw, may be you occassionally become overshadowed by regrets and bitter feelings and not knowing exactly what caused it.. some regretted wasted life while others regretted being trapped in what they feel was a cult.

do you experience anything similar.

how do you usually surmon up courage to stand up and forge ahead?.

Quendi

Thank you, Mr. Facts, for starting this thread. I especially appreciated zeb's take on what the cult has done to its members. I suppose for me I could dwell on the lost opportunities and wasted lives that I saw. But I also have to admit that there were many good things that also came my way because of my association with Jehovah's Witnesses. Most of those good things were in the way of the friendships made which shaped my life in a very positive way as well as the knowledge and skills I gained that I might not have otherwise.

Now I am out and free. I am learning a great deal about myself that I never would have known had I remained in the cult. Yes, I wish I had known these things years ago and I sometimes think about what might have been. But for me the most important lesson that I have learned since my departure is to "live and let live" because that has allowed me to "love and be loved".

It has been only two years since I made the decision to never set foot inside a Kingdom Hall again. My life has changed radically in that time, and all for the better. I can learn from my past and use that knowledge to benefit myself and others now. I also believe that there are a few of my former associates who are yearning to be free themselves. I hope that I'll be able to assist them when the time comes to do so.

I suppose the words of Henry David Thoreau in Walden sum up my attitude best now. He wrote, "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." There is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses who would not beneift from understanding this basic truth that Thoreau put forth so clearly.

Quendi

12

New Message from the Governing Body !!!

by discreetslave in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc2ghcxmdku&feature=youtube

Quendi

There are other YouTube links you can access by clicking on their panes in this posting. They are quite fascinating.

Quendi

37

I may be stepping down!

by Kool Jo in

so the co is in town...sorry i can't disclose much info....i haven't done anything wrong that warrants no longer serving as an ms....but the co is thinking of deleting me as an ms (my parents are aware)....i really hope he does as this will make my fade much more easier...... freedom is just around the corner i hope.... peace.

kool jo.

Quendi

Since you say you plan to "fade", then this is one more step in that direction anyway. Why care what the congregation thinks since you have already decided to sever ties with it and the organization? I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's time to man up. If you're leaving, then you're leaving whether you get deleted or not, isn't that so? Once you're gone, others will form whatever opinions they want to hold whether you are still in good standing or not.

Your case illustrates the enormous power this organization still wields over people. Most if not all of us who have left went through this agonizing and for no good purpose. It's only when you're good and gone that you can look back and ask what was I worried about? Sieze your freedom with both hands, turn your back on these hypocrites, and then walk away and reclaim your life, Kool Jo. To paraphrase a scripture, 'There are more people with you than there are with them.' Take comfort in that knowledge and be sure to move in any direction--as long as it is forward!

Quendi

23

Facing the elders - The right way to do it?

by mrbunyrabit in

so now you have it in your mind, that the wts are not what they say they are, they lie and what have you.. nowwwww, next time you dont go out in fieldservice, and the next time, and the next time people start to wonder.. well, time comes and you have to explain yourself to who ever.

your mom, your dad, an elder, who ever.

now you cant just go about saying, "well, one of the things is that new light is a bunch of crap, because russel predicted this in 1914 and that in 1918 and that in.....".

Quendi

When I attended pioneer school almost thirty years ago, I learned a very effective technique in dealing with anyone who wanted to resist new ideas and thinking. Put the burden of proof on them. Jesus did that most effectively and it will work for you as well. How do you do this? Simply ask questions that require them to prove their assertions! For example, when it comes to 1914 you can ask, "Where is the number 2,520 found in the Bible? Why is it the basis for the calculation of the length of the Gentile Times if it is not in Holy Writ?" Witnesses may assert that the number is there. Then ask them to prove it. Where is it? If they hesitate, open a copy of their own Comprehensive Concordance to the NWT and challenge them to find it using this tool.

In this regard, if they try to use the book of Revelation's "time, times and half a time" being equal to 1,260 days and then say, "We just double those numbers to get 2,520" you counter with, "Ah, but John was specifically told to equate the two. Where was Daniel told that his seven times equaled 2,520?" Again, put the burden of proof right back on their shoulders where it belongs.

It is likewise with other basic Witness theology. "Show it to me in the Word of God and I'll believe it." Most Witnesses are so poorly educated in what the Bible itself actually says, they'll have a hard time answering your challenges. I did this with a Witness who once was my closest friend in the organization. The looks of fear and helplessness that crossed his face were most instructive.

When they assert that Matthew 24/25; Mark 13 and Luke 21 predict what we'd see in the last days of the worldwide system, get them to show you how that conclusion can be drawn when the passages clearly talk about the coming destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple and nothing else. If they want to talk about "God's organization", again, challenge them to find those words in the Bible. You can easily find the word "congregation", but "organization" is entirely and completely absent. The same is true with their "overlapping generation" nonsense.

If they want to reference the WTS publications, that's fine. But you need to remind them that the publications are not the Bible. Are they saying that the two are equivalent or that perhaps the publications have superceded God's Word? If they can't use the Bible alone to make their points, what other conclusion about the relative worth of the WTS publications versus the Bible would one draw? Using the questioning method should yield more than satisfactory results for you, and may get your Witness visitors to do some serious soul-searching.

Quendi

21

Essential Watchtower publications

by peggaloon in

hi friends,.

i have a very nice jw friend who is willing to hand me some old copies of books / magazines that they are throwing out.

he comes with a long background of the cult so he has many years of literature (50 years possibly).. which are the essential books / magazines i should try to get off him to help me in my evangelism to the witnesses?.

Quendi

The Emphatic Diaglott and The Kingdom Interlinear New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures. Those are two of the more worthwhile WTS publications.

Quendi

11

You can take your three day quickbuild and shove it...

by Aaron Eldridge in

jw
friends

there is a christian organisation that builds churches in one day, oddly enough they are called church in a day.

so much for the quickbuild being used as proof of god's divine order working through the organisation.. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/29/faithful-volunteers-build-church-in-one-day-in-iowa/.

Quendi

And as usual, the WTS couldn't stay out of this and had to take over. First there was the nonsense of having "Regional Building Committees" that were "appointed by holy spirit" [read the WTS] which meant that only men could serve on them and women, regardless of their own talents and/or abilities along these lines, were shut out. Then the WTS mandated the architectural design of the building. All new halls must be built according to only seven WTS-approved plans. That meant that local custom, taste and decor were thrown out the window in favor of some cookie-cutter approach. Then came the clincher: all new halls were to be built using money loaned to the congregations directly from the WTS. That gave the WTS title to the land and the building enabling future sales for handsome profits--seeing the halls were built with volunteer labor--when the WTS sees fit.

It's all a scam more worthy of something the Devil himself would cook up and not the holy spirit. The whole arrangement is emblematic of the WTS's insatiable desire for control of the rank-and-file corps of Witnesses. Everything is kept under tight in-house control lest outside influences somehow take root and loosen the WTS grip on both lives and money. Sadly, it works as others have noted the widespread belief that the quick-build Kingdom Hall is proof of God's blessing on the organization and its adherents.

Quendi