Posts by DesirousOfChange

28

The magazines didn't used to be so dumb and boring

by Lore in

jw
friends

here's an excerpt from this weeks watchtower study in 1950: .

*** w50 6/15 p. 180 a victory dedicated to jehovahs honor ***.

the strategy, and the attack.

DesirousOfChange

Someone care to ad this week's lesson for comparison?

37

Logical Questions to Make Them Think?

by sweet pea in

this has no doubt been covered before and if anyone has any favourite threads on this subject perhaps they could post them here .

what are your best one liners/questions to make jw's think?.

i had a heated conversation with my mum this weekend and apart from mainly going round in circles (as is often the case with brainwashed cult members) one thing made her stop and i could see that she was having major trouble processing the logic.

DesirousOfChange

So the blood doctrine isn't in the bible? - Not as clearly as the ransom - So then, you could be disfellowshipped for not following a doctrine not clearly stated in the bible?

Angela, EXCELLENT REASONING that could be applied to almost any "doctrine" since most are "not so clearly stated in the Bible".

39

Tying Your Shoes With Modesty and Soundness of Mind

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

the lack of intellectually stimulating material within the jw religion right now is astounding.

there is clearly a lack of spiritually dense material and a surplus of ridiculous, childish babble.

the regular "food" that jws are being fed is illustratively equivalent to pureed baby food.

DesirousOfChange

NRFGeorge: Half of them can't even explain current, basic doctrine, less anything complicated.

DING: Reminds me of Awake articles like "Interesting Fruits of Brazil." Is this kind of thing really a "live saving kingdom message" that Jehovah wants JWs to peddle door to door?

George is right, most are just caught up in the "message" not how they are supposed to get there. 2520 weeks of whaaaaat???

Ding, these are the articles required to make reading the Awake!magazine equivalent to getting a four-years college degree.

47

'BELIEVE IT OR LEAVE IT' - a long time faders dilemma.

by nicolaou in

i've noticed a lot of newbies aren't bothering with long fades from the wt.

good for them, perhaps this younger, more savvy generation are more comfortable sticking two fingers up to the organisation and forcing their families to make the uncomfortable decisions about associating with them.. i applaud you, you were happy to believe it or leave it.. me?

i submitted my last field service report more than 11 years ago and have been 'fading' ever since, and i'm sick of it.

DesirousOfChange

"One of the talks at the convention mentioned a 'culling work' to come in the organization. It was said that this may involve rooting out some who have been 'in the truth' a long time and aren't doing enough and children of witnesses who have failed to make the truth their own."Are you serious?! They actually used the phrase 'culling work'?

Yes, I picked up on this statement at the DC.

39

Tying Your Shoes With Modesty and Soundness of Mind

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

the lack of intellectually stimulating material within the jw religion right now is astounding.

there is clearly a lack of spiritually dense material and a surplus of ridiculous, childish babble.

the regular "food" that jws are being fed is illustratively equivalent to pureed baby food.

DesirousOfChange

The greatest response (growth) is in undeveloped, uneducated third-world cultures. No need to be too spiritually or intellectually deep. They wouldn't understand it. I offer you the new brochure as evidence. Two editions: Dumb and Dumber. When you look at the full complete edition it is hard to imagine that there is a more simplified one. This has to be for people that cannot read.

33

There Goes My Wife. . . .

by southern.finesse in

jw
friends

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DesirousOfChange

This doesn't have to destroy your marriage. There are many successful "mixed" marriages in the congregations. Often in fact, the unbeliever is won over by the kindnesses of those in the congregation. These people are kind and lovng (many here would add "conditional" kindness or love). You can remain an "outsider" or "unbeliever" and as long as you are not seen as making an effort to "discourage" or "apostacize" your wife (or others), they will welcome you into their social life (somewhat) in an effort to convince and convert you. At the same time, they will encourage your wife to be a good wife, subjective, etc etc and certainly discourage any immorality. However, they will expect her/encourage her not to miss the 2 weekly meetings and to spend some time in the field ministry, which could easily be during times you are busy or working. (Not much different than if she was involved in any other religion.) The biggest issue will be if you want your children raised according to JW guidelines, which discourages higher education in lieu of door-knocking as a full-time JDub usually at the cost of getting ahead in life financially. And it opens your family to the divisive policy of shunning (disfellowshipping) should one of your family members screw up after being baptized. This policy has really destroyed some family relationships. It is bad. It is a control tool.

Your best way to proceed may be to be the nice guy who is curious about learning more, and use that as an opportunity to "ask questions". You will not be able to make direct use of "apostate" websites in your discussions, but rather it would be better to have such information provided by someone at work etc. You will thus be "innocent" of seeking out apostate information. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if someone at work or elsewhere among your friends has looked into it for their own benefit as well.

37

Logical Questions to Make Them Think?

by sweet pea in

this has no doubt been covered before and if anyone has any favourite threads on this subject perhaps they could post them here .

what are your best one liners/questions to make jw's think?.

i had a heated conversation with my mum this weekend and apart from mainly going round in circles (as is often the case with brainwashed cult members) one thing made her stop and i could see that she was having major trouble processing the logic.

DesirousOfChange

For older ones with years in the Truth, the constant "putting off" of THE END, which is always right-around-the-corner, is taking its toll. The new overlapping-generation doctrine is confusing and many JDubs that I know secretly feel it will be adjusted again (and hopefully make some sense). Add to that, that most DO NOT know how many times it has changed, nor could they even begin to tell you what the past teaching were (even in their lifetime, let alone going back to Russell). See jwfacts.com about the generation and educate yourself about these constant changes of doctrine.

http://www.jwfacts.com/images/generationjw.jpg

This can be linked with the keynote speech which has always been real "prophetic history" to JDubs, given by Rutherford: "Millions Now Living Will Never Die!" In the new DVD (Disc #1 from last year's Dist Conv) they refer to this speech as "Millions.......MAY Never Die!" Fact is, Rutherford did deliver the speech the FIRST time as "MAY Never Die", but changed it to increase the dynamics of it after that, and it was published as "...WILL NEVER DIE!" This "prophetic" statement has been clung to, until just recently. JDubs who caught the switch on the DVD were agag about it as the fact that it was originally titled as "...MAY Never Die" was only mentioned once in modern JW history. (Proclaimers book) It seems to me that they may claim in the Revelation Climax book that this qualifies as one of the "trumpet blows of Revelation" (help me out here folks!!! isn't that right???) More on this publication here:

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1925.php

The question to propose is: Why would God's Holy Spirit direct his Organization to "speak" or publish "false prophecy". (It's NOT prophecy.) OK, then, why would God's Spirit Directed Organization "speak" or publish FALSE STATEMENTS? (To weed out those without faith or to test the faithfulness of the Witnesses.) Are not False Statements = LIES? Thus, God's Holy Spirit directs His Organization to speak UNTRUTHS or LIES in order to test His faithful followers. How would we know what statements or teaching today are Truths or UN-Truths/LIES? Read Titus 1:2 -- "....God, who cannot lie....." Read James 1:13 -- "let no one say: 'I am being tried by God.' For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone."

There's a start for you.

Your best way to proceed may be to be showing sincere interest to understand more, and use that as an opportunity to "ask questions". You will not be able to make direct use of "apostate" websites in your discussions, but rather it would be better to have such information provided by someone at work etc. You will thus be "innocent" of seeking out apostate information. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if someone at work or elsewhere among your friends has looked into it for their own benefit as well.

23

A good argument well won

by DD10 in

hi guy's.

this is my first post on this site - i've just browsed for a few months.

i've not been to the kh or remained in contact with my ex jw "freinds" for a number of years now.

DesirousOfChange

DD, add to that, that mankind has never had the opportunity to prove their ability without the wicked influence of Satan & the demons. Plus, just at the time that mankind reaches their greatest period of accomplishment in science & technology, Satan & Company is cast down from heaven TO THE EARTH. Why was mankind subjected to the wicked influence? Did they even have a chance with that to deal with?

33

There Goes My Wife. . . .

by southern.finesse in

jw
friends

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DesirousOfChange

BLACK SHEEP said: Did you know that, according to her church rules, she cannot remarry until you do the horizontal tango with someone of the opposite sex (homo and beastiality don't count)?

That is also OLD Truth. The gay & bestiality exclusions were done away with years ago. (At that time they felt the marriage bed hadn't been defiled unless there was "insertive" sex (intercourse) with a member of the opposite sex.) Now, ANY sexual indiscretion is grounds for divorce, even just the touching (for sexual stimulation) of another person's genitals. Thus, going to a strip club & being fondled by the dancer or touching the gal's coochie while getting a lap dance would qualify as grounds for "scriptural" divorce.

7

Showdown with my family

by fade_away in

so i was at my parents house yesterday and an apostate vs j-dub showdown commenced.

i was merely just asking questions since they always told me that if i had any questions to feel free to ask.

so i did.....but they seemed angry at the fact i was asking such questions to begin with.

DesirousOfChange

FADE AWAY: On the disaster relief debate, you ask him if it's true that JWs require that insurance settlements be turned over to the Disaster Relief Committee? (They do.) You see, all the labor is volunteer, but the insurance settlements are based on the cost of materials AND LABOR, thus they pocket the insurance procedes for the labor even though the work was all done by free JW volunteers. Often they will shuttle in volunteers (at the volunteeres' own expense of course) from all over the country to places where there are major disasters such as hurricanes. All the JW volunteers get the feel good about helping out the disaster stricken brothers, and the Society gets a windfall of insurance money. CA$H COW.

Or, you could ask if it is true that JWs contend that Holy Spirit appoints their officials, such as Ministerial Servants, Elders, Circuit Overseers, District Overseers, etc? (They clearly say YES to this!) Then why is it that the Holy Spirit would appoint a serial child molester as a JW Bethel Elder who was a regular speaker and respresentative of the Watchtower World Headquarters who traveled all around the world (US & South America) giving talks at conventions and special events? Is God's Holy Spirit REALLY directing the decisions of this Organization? See related news report below about Jesus Manuel Cano who lived at the WT Farms complex (which was raided by police):

http://www.virushead.net/vhrandom/2006/06/28/jehovahs-witness-bethelite-videotaped-boys-at-ohare

You could ask if they claim that when Jesus invisibly returned that he appointed the WT Organization as his ONE chosen means of communication in 1914 because of the works they were doing as compared to all the rest of Christianity (Christendom)? YES THEY DO! If Christmas is SO PAGAN, why did Jesus choose an Organization who celebrated PAGAN holidays (Christmas) for at least another 10 years after he selected them as his chosen "Christian" mouthpiece? They also used the CROSS which they claim is pagan as a symbol on the cover of the Watchtower magazine until 1936. Why did Jesus approve of his Holy Spirit Directed Organization using pagan symbols and celebrating pagan customs then, but not now? How could they claim that the Organization was not contaminated just as all the rest of Christendom? (You can find proof of this in their own history book known as "Proclaimers".)