hello there everyone.
i remember reading a while back about someone on here ( i think) that wrote a letter to the body of elders & headoffice that they should not take any action to disfellowship them as they would be distancing them from friends and relatives and would proceed to take legal action if the body of elders went ahead.. if anyone has that link or can point me in the right direction i'd appreciate that..
Hey, Band--
Remember it's an emotional issue for people. I doubt she meant any malice. Probably just striking out at anything/everything right now.
I for one, appreciate someone like you with a professional background being willing to take the time to post what is an experienced reply/comment.
DOC
here in europe, we have started different initiatives aiming at exposing publicly and legally the watchtower on the subject of ostracism, discrimination and shunning.. in the past we have seen different manifestations held in front of kingdom halls or branch offices on issues such as pedophilia and blood transfusions policies, and even, such as in france, against building of real-estates.
now it seems that the issue of discrimination against disfellowshipped or dissociated people is gaining momentum.
we have seen the large demonstrations in brazil, and maybe the lesser important ones elsewhere.
Not an attorney, but in the US the "Separation of Church & State" is a First Amendment issue and trumps almost anything else. The only way I would see any level of government infringing on religions is if they pursue taxation in some form. Every level of government is short on funds due to the economic recession, and I think most citizens would rather see the churchs taxed than pay more themselves.
with the ensuing unrest in north africa and the middle east, i wonder if some "zealous" brothers and sisters are saying: "this is it!!!"..
didn't armageddon suppose to start in the mideast?
isn't the unrest moving closer and closer to israel?
A friend who has been inactive for years called me this morning to get my "take" on Eqypt/Jordan. I figured he wants us to get back in the Ark before the door is closed.
the present turmoil in the middle east is sure to have the jws creaming themselves.
biblical locales and symbols - egypt, israel, the red sea.
potential war among nations with nukes.
In inactive friend (hasn't been to anything but Memorial in years) called me this morning to get my "take" on Egypt and Jordan situations.... Maybe he wants back in before the door on the Ark closes. (??)
a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.
many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.
i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?
How will the congregation react when it becomes known that a long serving elder gets removed for letting his children go to university? Has anyone experienced that? Please relate.
Personally, I think this will only be used against elders/MS's if their kids are in or have gone to college AND the kids are not "progressing spiritually". That is to say, a kid in college should already be baptised (maybe even back when he/she was 10 or 11 yo); should be a good publisher who aux pioneers in the summer (and this coming April); should be attending meetings and walking the mics or even MS.
Further, acceptable going to college/university does not mean pursing "career" such as law, medicine, PhD, etc
JMHO
i've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime jws here recently.
i thought i would add to that collection and recount a discussion i recently had with my dad and a small group of folks about his age.
quick background on the group:.
will they leave? I think many in their 60's and 70's will not.
Perhaps they haven't "left", but I am surprised by how many of them are on JWN.
They are certainly doubting things that they have not doubted in the past.
growing up as a jw i always imagined the new system (tm) as being just like it's presented in the literature (tm).
i thought we'd all be hanging around with dorky looks on our faces, petting tigers and panda bears all day while we eat fruit and practice our dorky grins.. i've never seen a pic from the society (tm) showing cars or planes (or other forms of transport) in the literature (tm).
what did you imagine as far as transportation in the new system (tm)?
YES! There will be electric cars.
Seems I heard something about that in the State of the Union speech..............? (I thought Obama was Muslim)
hi everybody, i was wondering how were you dealing with the snow.here in connecticut the snow is brutal.so i was wondering how people were surviving was is being the worst winter since 1978..
It's all good -- Snow is like sex.....
....you never know when it's gonna come, or how much you're gonna get.
my name is jaime and i'm here because my fiance recommended this site.
i am not, nor will i ever be, a jehovah's witness.
i strongly believe it is a cult, but i also am respectful of the choice people make to associate themselves within the witness "world.
Nugget: I take it your fiance was not baptised and yet is being treated like a Df'd person.... If you MIL was a drunk or a drug addict you wouldn't think twice the threat is so clear.
Blonde: This is definitely a toxic relationship and dangerous. You should both be strong and not let this abuse continue.
Jaime Bowers: You don't have to be rude, but you must be firm.
ALL GREAT ADVICE! You don't have to be rude, but you don't have to allow you or your loved ones to be abused. Yet, your best approach is to always appear reasonable and understanding and willing to compromise.
Some thoughts on dealing with the situation:
I am assuming your fiance IS/WAS a baptised JW or the family would not be totally shunning him. (1 Cor 5:11 "But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator.....")
If he is NOT baptised (as Nugget suggested), then I would ask your MIL what is her scriptural basis for shunning him? In JW legalese, he is simply a "man of the world" or a "weak" unbaptised publisher and should be encouraged, not shunned.
If he IS baptised, then get the following quote off of the WT-Library CD, from the article “Is it Wrong to Change Your Religion?” in the July 2009 Awake p29: “No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.”Is she trying to make him choose between his beliefs and his family?? Show her that is contrary to recent (2009) WT doctrine. (A quote from a non-witness website won't be acceptable!)
Also, get the quote from 09/15/81 Watchtower Pg 29, Par18: "The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one’s home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided." Determining what are "necessary family matters", i.e., seeing one's grandchildren, is a matter of individual conscience. While an elder or MS might be at risk of losing their position if it is determined that they abuse the loophole, there is no action that can be taken against his mother (unless she is a pioneer). She will be giving up the only opportunity the child has to be exposed to the good influence of a Witness environment.
A former Circuit Overseer, who was a friend of my parents, said that one of his life's greatest regrets was refusing to go to his son & DIL's wedding, which they had at a non-religious site by a Justice of the Peace (not a clergyman) as a compromise to the Witness family members. His regret was that it alienated this kind, reasonable girl so badly that for years she never agreed to listen to the Kingdom Message like she might have if they had been reasonable on the matter. He sites Jesus example of healing the woman with the flow of blood in Luke 8:43-48. In touching Jesus, this woman broke an absolute rule of the Mosaic Law. Yet, Jesus did not condemn her, but healed her. The WT uses this as an example of Jesus being "reasonable and yielding" vs. ridgidly enforcing the Law.
Finally, you might have some hope in convincing her that once you are married, he will no longer be a "fornicator". The scripture says to not mix with anyone who is a "fornicator". You might have some success in noting that to continue to do so, would be "adding to" the Word of God.
a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.
many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.
i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?
If you are really upset with the Society's stand on this, the best way to protest is to step down as an elder or ministerial servant.
Some think they can have a greater influence for change from the inside than on the outside.
