Posts by Larry

30

MS Rat,My Dad , Elder and Betrayal

by LyinEyes in

jw
friends

most of you know about the story of the ms who ratted on wildturkey and me for smoking at the club, he smoked one of my cigs and was there with his girlfriend (he is married).

well, i ran into him last night at the club and confronted him,, i asked him why he told on us, i just wanted to know, he said he didnt know why, he just felt pressured..i asked if he told on himself he said no!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i wanted to slap him right there.

Larry

This board is the place to vent - If you need to vent do it here.

I never heard of this analogy, Can I quote you, I like it? "I swear if my dad was Abraham, and Jehovah told him to sacrifice me , just like he did Issac, and if Jehovah intervened and told him no , dont do it., my dad would stab my in the heart anyway."

Yeah, that MS got some nerve - he even pisses me off! Can you post his picture?

Of course the JW will twist the scripture when the J man said 'he came to cause division in the household.'

If there is anything a JW male treasures the most it's his position - If you get that taken away from you stuck a powerful blow - Go for it.

Peace and Security - LL

PS - You going to the club tonight :)

29

WERE YOU TREATED POORLY IN THE CONGREGATION?

by minimus in

jw
friends

when you were associated in the congregation, were you treated in a way that made you feel like you were a 2nd class citizen?

how were you regarded?

were you the brunt of criticism or were you pretty much well-liked?

Larry

While growing up, my family was always looked down upon. My dad wasn't a JW, he was as 'worldly' as they came, we were poor, my mother had 7 children, no one in my JW family had any JW responsibilities or titles, etc. But things changed as we got older, we all started working, getting baptized and married, got position and titles in the BORG. So things were looking up, but I always felt they never forgot where we came from.

Interestingly, I think that's why my Mother was so hurt when I left the BORG - She no longer had someone to be proud of, an example of someone to prove the folks who looked down on us wrong - No more 'look at my son, he conducts the WT lesson,' etc. My advancement was a reflection on her.

After I got married and moved to another hall things were 'peachy' - at least for me. But my wife hated the fakeness, she saw it immediately, but I was too busy reaching out to see it. I saw it after I 'stepped aside' as a Sheepdog, folks treated me differently over night.

Anyway, these are some to the replies that touched me or brought back memories from the previous post -

"I remember going out for service and I was that last person chosen."

"Nobody wanted to go with us. Nobody even wanted to give us Not Homes to do by ourselves."

"When I asked her who would be coming by to pick me up (with my son), she said: "Oh, I thought you had a car we could use. Well forget it then," and hung up in my ear."

"but when my 6-year-old was in a wheelchair due to post-viral arthritis and I wheeled him into the KH and NO ONE came up to ask what happened, I decided this was the meanest place I'd ever been and if these were the people I'd have to spend forever with, then I'd pass."

"I found that the women were judged mainly on what their husband was in the congregation."

Peace ansd Security - LL

14

Have I Learned to Think Outside of My Box?

by IslandWoman in

jw
friends

i was thinking today ( as i have many times) of those days in the jw world.

over and over i now find it incredible that i could have thought that shunning was "good", that the door to door work was "productive", that to plan on allowing my child to die rather than to take blood was "god's will", that "worldly" people cannot know god, etc.

etc.. it all seemed right, it all seemed good, it all seemed god approved.

Larry

"Over and over I now find it incredible that I could have thought that shunning was "good", that the door to door work was "productive", that to plan on allowing my child to die rather than to take blood was "God's will", that "worldly" people cannot know God, etc. etc. etc." ~ Chilling to see that in writing - Ouch!

"Growing up" at my age is a painful thing - Amen to that sister :)

Challenge everything - That's what I believe. IMO some ex-jw's step out of the JW box and stop there, but the 'box-er rebellion' applys to everything :)

Actually, your post just emphazies the fultility of many arguments. We may be passionate about something one day and the next day, year, decade, change our viewpoint. Circumstances changes and so does our position.

On the other hand, some people are very comforatable in 'the'box' - no responisbility, decisions are made for them, they could lose themselves inside the box, and justify their existence via a box.

Peace and Security - LL

41

Is the death penalty effective in usa?

by haujobbz in

jw
friends

.

im asking this because lately in the uk 2 girls were murdered that were only 12 yrs old and now 59% population of the uk want the death penalty reinstated.. i assume you already have the death penalty in the usa, but do you think it is effective reducing 1st degree murder and potential child molesters,would you like to see the death penalty removed in the united states or not.. i wonder if the death penalty will be reinstated in the uk what do you think, personally i dont think it will maybe the politicians are afraid they wont get as many votes.

Larry

No, the death penality is not effective in the US. The evidence is overwhelming, so let me move to another issue - A few years ago I work on a death penalty case in Texas (Pro Bono) and we got the prisoner off, after he spent over tens year in prison. The reason we won his appeal is becasue we had the resources - A pertigious law firm backing him up, brilliant lawyers, expert witnesses, deep pockets, etc. When the defendant originally got arrestted he had lousy representation, if any - He didn't have a chance against the power hungry DA. So he was convicted until we got involved. In short, many folks get convicted b/c they can't afford the resource$ for a fair trial.

As a JW, I was for the death penality, b/c it was part of the law of Moses, you know the supposedly 'Perfect Law.' Once I left the BORG and saw the many injustices of the death penalty I can't possibly support it. But its all relative b/c if someone killed a member of my family, I would want them to die in return.

Anyway, here's a section from the ACLU ( American Civil Liberties Union) W ebsite ( http://www.aclu.org/executionwatch.html) :

The Poverty Connection

The American Bar Association and numerous scholars have concluded that it is not the facts of the crime, but the quality of legal representation, that distinguishes cases in which the death penalty is imposed from similar cases in which it is not imposed. And the overwhelming majority of people on death row received substandard legal representation at trial. Ninety percent of criminal defendants in this country who are charged with a capital crime are indigent when arrested, and virtually all are penniless by the time their case reaches the appeals stage. In California, the state with the largest death row population (513), less than 2 percent were represented at trial by retained counsel.

In most death penalty states, indigent defendants are represented by court-appointed lawyers, and most states pay their court-appointed lawyers only $20 to $40 per hour. Some states limit the amount of compensation a court-appointed attorney can receive in a death penalty case to as little as $2,000. (Compare this to the $14 million price tag on the first trial of Erik and Lyle Menendez which ended in a hung jury). These amounts are absurdly low in view of the amount of time it takes to properly prepare for any criminal case, much less one than can result in a sentence of death. One study has concluded that in order to prepare a legally adequate defense in a capital case, a lawyer would need to spend over 600 hours in pre-trial preparation, 600 hours in court time, and 700 hours during direct appeal.

The result of this deprivation is that poor people charged with capital crimes receive shockingly substandard legal services. A recent survey conducted by the National Law Journal found that over half of the death row inmates in six southern states had been represented by lawyers who had never before handled a capital case. The study concluded that capital trials are "more like a random flip of a coin than a delicate balancing of the scales" because the defense lawyer is too often "ill trained, unprepared and grossly underpaid."

Peace - LL

15

When did you realised that everything had changed?

by In_between_days in

jw
friends

in life, there are certain pivotal moments when you realise that every thing has changed dramatically.

it's a breathtaking and overwhleming feeling.

you may think back to who you were on this day a year ago, compared to who you are now - the contrast is incredible.. i find change in viewpoints and thinking evolves slowly, over a long period of time, you dont know the change is taking place until one day, you realise for one stunning minute that you are everything that you never were.

Larry

Ok I got it - It was when I saw the happiness on my children's face when they had their first x-mas.

Peace - LL

15

When did you realised that everything had changed?

by In_between_days in

jw
friends

in life, there are certain pivotal moments when you realise that every thing has changed dramatically.

it's a breathtaking and overwhleming feeling.

you may think back to who you were on this day a year ago, compared to who you are now - the contrast is incredible.. i find change in viewpoints and thinking evolves slowly, over a long period of time, you dont know the change is taking place until one day, you realise for one stunning minute that you are everything that you never were.

Larry

When I got on the internet. After that, if can remember correctly, I think it was when I read a chapter on-line of Franz book explaining the blood issue - That was a real eye opener. That started the process, the rest is history.

Peace and Security - LL

25