Posts by NewChapter

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

And you're predestined to be bad . . . how can that be a personal crime? It's an inevitability . . . determined to exist by God . . . not you.

Kind of like getting mad at a dog for being a dog, don't you think?

Time, Stop? We aren't even talking about time. When it is forever, time loses all meaning---it's not longer relevant.

We are talking about a god that could remain so angry at a person for a few pathetic years just throwing time aside and NEVER forgiving, never easing the suffering, never turning down the heat. That just doesn't make sense.

And then to say that if one humans get's tortured to death, THAT is equal to suffering without time, that doesn't make sense either!

Think about it. You are saying, that right this very minute, people are screaming in agony at the hands of an angry god, and yet this is a god of justice and love? Would you do such to your own child? Are you more moral than your god? I think you are. Nobody tortures a child nonstop for a transgression unless they are sick, deranged, or a psychopath. None of us define that as love.

Stop---it doesn't make sense, and you have not explained it at all. Torturing one human equals the suffering of an eternity in flames?

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Well this is a point that Snare and I have never agreed on, and have even drawn blood over. I say rabbits are wizards.

That misunderstanding aside, he really made an excellent post that should be taken to heart.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Unstop, until you can explain it in your own words, then it is just something that you have read. Cofty is pushing you to do something very valuable. This is your PERSONAL faith, therefore, cut and paste will not do.

I feel bad for you to have to worry that grandparents are not doing well. If I could relieve you of that with a reality dose, I would. But that's something you will just have to do yourself. Nothing anyone says could ever bring comfort when a person has such a notion. I have no authority that you will respect, but I promise your grandparents are NOT hurting or suffering.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

i hate the idea of hell but i do believe in it only because the bible teaches it. i know by me saying that some ppl will twist it to me thinking im better or whatever so i have to be careful how i say things

Well here is the thing. It doesn't matter that you don't want people to think you are saying you are better than them, because the statement stands on its own. You say there are two outcomes (quite a common christian contruct---good/bad---satan/god----heaven/hell). One outcome if very good--heavean. One outcome is very bad--Hell. You are on the road to Heaven, others are on the road to Hell. Can't get around it. The better outcome and the better road is Heaven, and so the better decision maker will choose that.

You must be in complete agreement with God's will, or else you wouldn't be on that road. God wills that some go to Hell. He does what brings him delight. If it didn't bring him delight, he wouldn't want to concern himself with the eternal screams of mercy and pain that he has set up with Hell. LOL. It's truly psychotic, you know? I know you can't see it that way yet, but you may.

I'm just not gonna be happy in a Heaven if my child is screaming in horrendous pain for eternity. If I did find pure bliss in that, then I would be a psychopath. This god does find delight in that, and is a psychopath.

In fact, the thought that my grandparents, dead friends, my MOTHER are screaming for mercy right now, burning, burning, burning, is actually something I couldn't live with. And CERTAINLY not love the god that constructed all. Actually, that used to really bother me, back when I believed in Hell.

Nothing but fear with this god---and maybe stockholm syndrome. But one thing is clear, it takes a lot of strange thinking to love a monster like that and not be sick to death over people that died that you loved. Even the POSSIBILITY that they could be in such a state used to wake me up at night.

Yeah---I've always been too tender-hearted for the Hell thingy. While I was encouraged to seek my own salvation, I was given very little hope for others. So sad. What an awful thing to choose to carry around. And more disturbing, you find yourself unable to explain the exact way Jesus's death helps you. You preach about it. Think people are going to Hell over it. And you can't even explain it. Keep working on that.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

cyber jesus - i disagree with most of what you state(me i cant speak for other believers) you say go is an idiot well i disagree. you say god had no choice after the fall of man. i believe god knew before adam was created what would happen.i dont believe jehovah created jesus i believe that jesus the word never had a beginnig. and i also do not believe in a second change after death for anyone including non believers. im not trying to come off as confritational but i just want to get what i believe out there and its not close to the wt! and cofty the best i can say is 1 peter 2 :24 im not trying to evade ur question

Hmmm. So you are saying that torture and gruesome death is the penalty for your sins, and Jesus took that penalty for you. Are you then saying that those that reject that sacrifice are headed for a gruesome, torturous, drawn out death inflicted by the God of Love.

Not sure how that would work. Is it really justice to penalize the innocent one? Like, if a parent commits murder, is justice served by them offering their child up for the death penalty? I'm thinking no.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Sooooooooo---and I admit, genetics is not my strongest point--------but this just occurred to me. If God took a rib from Adam's side to create Eve, wouldn't that make her a clone and male? I could be wrong, but if I'm right, then it really WAS Adam and Steve! *giggle*

Yes, I'm juvenile. I embrace it.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

new chapter thats ur thoughts mine are completly different. since i do believe in sin cofty im thankful for what was done for me.

Exactly. I was just stating, in the same absolute terms as you, my interpretation of the story. You said it does not change the facts---and I said the same.

PS, I never said you were a Rapture person. I'm saying the thought that the believers will not be judged, but the believers will be judged on works is not that unusual. It comes through in different contexts, but when you boil it down, you share this is common with the Rapture people. Believers are spared judgement and saved by grace. Non-believers don't benefit from grace but will be judged on their works.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

I did a paper on this view for my Theology class, my professor found it intersting to say the least. He mentioned a few other theolgians of the past that had similar views, so I wasn't alone and I certainly made my case in biblical terms ( cite passages and what not) but it is still a bit on the fringe of orthodoxy, to put it nicely.

It's a quite common understanding in many forms. I received a pamphlet in my door about the Rapture. They left it because when the Rapture comes, they will not be around to tell me how to get my reward. It said that those that have faith in Christ now, will escape judgment and the Great Trib, but those left on earth, those that waited, those that refused to fall in line, would be judged on works because they rejected grace. And so, during the Great Trib they would be tortured in unspeakable ways, but they must not accept the number of the beast, because they have have rejected grace they must now endure or be lost.

Of course, I could avoid all the unpleasantness if I just stopped being stubborn and evil.

LOL

No wonder the novels sell so well.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

cofty yes it was very bloody and horrible what he went through is 50-53 descibes it in a very detalied way. that still does not change the fact it is the only way for forgivness of sins,so wheter you like or love the arragment that what the cost was and he paid it.so we are talking about what christ did not why he had to do it.

No. Actually it does nothing to change the fact that salvation is not a necessary component of life, or that there is no judgement or reward, there is this life. No matter how compelling the story, it will never make it true.

40

An atheists grieve

by Borges in

jw
friends

i'm reading here almost every day (kind of adicted i think).

but due to the fact, that my english isn't very good, i abstain from commenting most of the time.. nevertheless i'd like to share some thoughts with you.. .

when i learned the tatt over a year ago i quickly became an atheist.

NewChapter

I often think that if this hope was never fed to us, we would handle the inevitable much better. But because we were told we could live forever, we formed around that, and perhaps even feel cheated when we learn it simply is not true.

If someone told me there was a grand treasure at the top of the mountain, and I could have it if I go get it, I may go to extraordinary lengths to get it. If on reaching the top, I find now treasure, then I will experience grief and disapointment. I will look back on my life and consider all the sacrifices and devotion I wasted on chasing a lie. But if nobody ever told me there was a treasure on top of that mountain, then I would live my life with no such desire. I may wish that I had some treasure, but I would not count on it or put my hopes into it, therefore, my disappointment would just not reach the level of those that searched to find it wasn't there.

I focus on how much richer my life is now that I've shed superstition and lies. Much richer. Unfounded guilt, artificial prohibitions, brain patrole, constant internal inventories---I'm free of all of that. And so I can enjoy what I have instead of waiting for the real stuff to start. That's a great gift, and I wish I had found it sooner. But it is what I have, and I will enjoy it to the fullest.

Christopher Hitchens wrote a book called Mortality. I have not read this book, but understand he wrote it when he knew he was dying. There may be something in there to put it into perspective. If you do read it, share some of it with us. It's on my list, but I can't get to it just yet.