Posts by NewChapter

63

Idle question about Abraham and Human Sacrifice

by corpusdei in

i don't have my usual resources in front of me, so i can't fact check this, but there's been something bothering me.

one of the things mentioned quite often as evidence of the wickedness and evil practices of the false religion that surrounded ancient israel is the practice of child sacrifice (baal and molech being the frontrunners as i recall).

but ...... didn't god tell abraham to kill his own son isaac as a human sacrifice?

NewChapter

But Tammy, that just intensifies the problem. Regarding this quote: when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?... by their own admission we can't trust the scribes. In that way, we can't trust any of it. All that was written about Jesus could be false just as easily as all that was written about the OT god may be false. And remember "just as in the time of Noah . . . " As I said, same god, same story. This reference proves that Christians believed that their god destroyed everyone but 8 in a great flood.

If I am reading a book on science, and some of it's own authors claim that some of the other authors wrote false things, in the same book--well then the entire book is suspect. I can't trust it. Now I know the bible wasn't written as the same book, but it was the same subject and it was all written by scribes. According to that scripture-some of those scribes wrote false things. I have nothing against Jesus, he taught valuable lessons--at least as presented by scribes that may have portrayed him falsely. If god is almighy and his word is so important that he refers to his son as the word, I do believe it would be in his interest to protect that word. It would be the loving thing to do anyway--so he either protected it or he didn't. If he didn't, and that seems to be what you are saying, then I can trust none of it---including the parts about Jesus.

NC

63

Idle question about Abraham and Human Sacrifice

by corpusdei in

i don't have my usual resources in front of me, so i can't fact check this, but there's been something bothering me.

one of the things mentioned quite often as evidence of the wickedness and evil practices of the false religion that surrounded ancient israel is the practice of child sacrifice (baal and molech being the frontrunners as i recall).

but ...... didn't god tell abraham to kill his own son isaac as a human sacrifice?

NewChapter

AH! Corpus! I absolutely love Angry(feet). I got to see Minchin (FINALLY) last Saturday. He's been avoiding the US so I waited 3 years. His stuff is just layered with irony and meaning. He had some really funny new stuff that he's trying to keep off of youtube for a while.

NC

63

Idle question about Abraham and Human Sacrifice

by corpusdei in

i don't have my usual resources in front of me, so i can't fact check this, but there's been something bothering me.

one of the things mentioned quite often as evidence of the wickedness and evil practices of the false religion that surrounded ancient israel is the practice of child sacrifice (baal and molech being the frontrunners as i recall).

but ...... didn't god tell abraham to kill his own son isaac as a human sacrifice?

NewChapter

Okay Tec, I see you are sincere and loving, and I respect that. Since Jesus used the OT and was in complete agreement with it, I can't reconcile things as you do. Jesus never mentioned that the OT was inaccurate or harsh--he revised a few things which is expected because he introduced a new covenant. That covenant was not intended to discredit the OT, but was a further working of those writings. I think if the ancient Hebrews had it wrong, then the god of the bible and the word would have been interested in righting it. It's like saying that for 4000 years, the Hebrew god was content to allow his people to walk in darkness---which is problematic since he was supposedly still speaking through his prophets and could have corrected them at any time. We can read Revelation and be assured that the Hebrew god has not changed. That was a revelation that came from god, through Jesus to an angel to John. So Jesus' hand was in that also. Same god, same story, even with Jesus in the mix.

Thanks for the conversation though. As long as you're happy then you will have peace.

NC

63

Idle question about Abraham and Human Sacrifice

by corpusdei in

i don't have my usual resources in front of me, so i can't fact check this, but there's been something bothering me.

one of the things mentioned quite often as evidence of the wickedness and evil practices of the false religion that surrounded ancient israel is the practice of child sacrifice (baal and molech being the frontrunners as i recall).

but ...... didn't god tell abraham to kill his own son isaac as a human sacrifice?

NewChapter

Then how do you decide which parts are true? The bible says All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, and for SETTING THINGS STRAIGHT. Forgive me, I can only quote from NWT, but I'm sure others read similarily. Certainly, under the warning not to change a word, god could prevent his word from becoming adulterated. Surely if he were loving and his son WAS the word, he would not leave us to guess. He would not allow a mere mortal to remove or change important information. If we get to read the bible and decide on our own what is true and useful, even though doing goes contrary to scripture and therefore the Word, then a person could decide that this god was out for blood and his son was good with that. And his Hebrew followers were good with that. And I am not good with that. God doesn't change, he is the same god that called for the wholesale slaughter of men, women, children, babies and just because he sent a friendlier face, Jesus, that does not erase his history, which is his present, because again, he does not change and he is never wrong.

It is okay to pick the parts of the bible that fit how you see Jesus, but that just leaves me to question, doesn't that invalidate the authority of the bible? What if everything written about Jesus was false or tampered with, and everything written about the Hebrew god was dead on? If you are willing to accept that the nice sounding stuff is true but not the rest, then perhaps you are willing to say it could be the opposite. That the horrors and nightmares recorded are the real truth and the good stuff is wishful thinking.

I'm glad you see the bible as you do---it makes me like you as a person. Yet that probably means you are a caring person, with or without the bible, and you are doing everything in your power to make the bible a loving book. I am not able to dismiss the rest of it though. Jesus represented the god of the OT and he quoted from the OT. He didn't even have the NT to quote from.

Edit to say this was answering Tec's post. I didn't see quarterback's in time. yes the US had a disturbing beginning. We were wrong. We know that, and so we ammended the constitution. The bible and god are never wrong. (according to the bible) No ammendments.

NC

63

Idle question about Abraham and Human Sacrifice

by corpusdei in

i don't have my usual resources in front of me, so i can't fact check this, but there's been something bothering me.

one of the things mentioned quite often as evidence of the wickedness and evil practices of the false religion that surrounded ancient israel is the practice of child sacrifice (baal and molech being the frontrunners as i recall).

but ...... didn't god tell abraham to kill his own son isaac as a human sacrifice?

NewChapter

Yes, they were okay with that account. I find that disturbing. But was the bible then written only for those present? Perhaps it wasn't written for us, because most modern people just can't stomach such bloody stories. How could they not be ready for that info? I understood that reasoning to be applied to prophecy---they wouldn't understand because it involved the future. But this involved the past. I'm not being obtuse. Why were they ready to read about intended child sacrifice, offering virgin daughters to ravenous mobs, a father impregnating those daughters--but they couldn't handle the "why". Trust me, it does bother me that they were just fine with those details and felt no need to ask why. And Jesus in his wisdom didn't care to elaborate, just a little, for the milder humans in the future. I must conclude that it was not written for me.

NC

63

Idle question about Abraham and Human Sacrifice

by corpusdei in

i don't have my usual resources in front of me, so i can't fact check this, but there's been something bothering me.

one of the things mentioned quite often as evidence of the wickedness and evil practices of the false religion that surrounded ancient israel is the practice of child sacrifice (baal and molech being the frontrunners as i recall).

but ...... didn't god tell abraham to kill his own son isaac as a human sacrifice?

NewChapter

I think he should have gone back and clarified, yes. He did so with divorce. He did so when quoting the law about murder/adultery by saying that even thinking of these things or becoming overly angry was already the sin. I think it is also reasonable for him to fill in details on upsetting accounts. Not everything was recorded--but isn't god in charge of what got recorded? Jesus was in complete agreement with his father. No, Isaac didn't kill his son, but for evermore Isaac remembers being laid on top of wood meant to burn his body knowing his father was raising a knife to plunge it through his heart. At that moment, he knew he was dead. Killed by his father. The last minute reprieve was unexpected. What is written on my heart and conscience is that I don't do that to my child, EVER. Apparently that was not written on Abraham's heart. Yet he is judged an extremely righteous man. Am I more righteous than Abraham because I would never consider plunging a knife into my child's chest? Is it possible to be more righteous than Abraham?

NC

63

Idle question about Abraham and Human Sacrifice

by corpusdei in

i don't have my usual resources in front of me, so i can't fact check this, but there's been something bothering me.

one of the things mentioned quite often as evidence of the wickedness and evil practices of the false religion that surrounded ancient israel is the practice of child sacrifice (baal and molech being the frontrunners as i recall).

but ...... didn't god tell abraham to kill his own son isaac as a human sacrifice?

NewChapter

Respectfully Tec, why should that be what we take away? What I mean is, why is that the appropriate idea to absorb? Perhaps we should take away that Abraham was willing to kill his son for his god---that's what the account says. Granted it's a small passage of a great moment, but don't you think that for such a pivotal decision we would be given exactly what we need to understand it? Yes Job's friends didn't know the big issue, but the scriptures did tell the fuller story. Because it was important. If something important was left out of Abraham's story--then why was it left out? This is a disturbing story to the majority of the people. Why wouldn't Jesus as the truth have clarified that for us? This isn't a minor issue like whether Adam had a naval or not, this is major heavy duty stuff. This was the base for the entire religion. This represented the covenent---that Israel would be raised from Isaac and forshadowed Jesus' sacrifice.

What should be taken away when Lot offered his virgin daughters up to be raped by an entire town of men to protect angels? Just that Lot was faithful--he was saved afterall--or that god approved of that sacrifice too? I don't understand how people can decide to choose the lesson they wish to take away--no matter what the details are. Jesus, as the light and the truth, certainly could have clarified these disturbing issues for us. Surely in his wisdom, he could foresee that it would eventually become disturbing, even if his followers of the day were fine with it, but he didn't. He wanted to sanctify his father's name, but---well when it comes to child sacrifice and handing young women over to criminal crowds, he was strangely silent. Jesus was in total agreement with his father at all times---therefore he was in agreement with this.

No, I can't just look for some good lesson in that and simply dismiss the details.

NC

35

57% of all publishers pioneered in April

by hoser in

jw
friends

we had a letter read this afternoon after the watchtower study that said we had 54,408 auxillary pioneers in april and with the regular pioneers it totaled 64,855 in full time preaching in april.

57% of the publishers.. so my guess is that the co will come down hard on any congregation that didn't meet those numbers next april.. i think the 30 hour thing had it's desired effect.. hoser.

NewChapter

It's easy to pioneer. You just fill in some numbers on a slip of paper.

NC

63

Idle question about Abraham and Human Sacrifice

by corpusdei in

i don't have my usual resources in front of me, so i can't fact check this, but there's been something bothering me.

one of the things mentioned quite often as evidence of the wickedness and evil practices of the false religion that surrounded ancient israel is the practice of child sacrifice (baal and molech being the frontrunners as i recall).

but ...... didn't god tell abraham to kill his own son isaac as a human sacrifice?

NewChapter

Ohhhh, Still Thinking. Don't cha know there is a difference between murder and righteous killing?

LOL, Scripture101. I don't know how I ever bought this as long as I did.

NC

63

Idle question about Abraham and Human Sacrifice

by corpusdei in

i don't have my usual resources in front of me, so i can't fact check this, but there's been something bothering me.

one of the things mentioned quite often as evidence of the wickedness and evil practices of the false religion that surrounded ancient israel is the practice of child sacrifice (baal and molech being the frontrunners as i recall).

but ...... didn't god tell abraham to kill his own son isaac as a human sacrifice?

NewChapter

I know I've posted this before, but it makes me laugh everytime. It addresses, briefly, the Isaac story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0