Leander

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Posts by Leander

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  34

  Why the bible does'nt make sense to me

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for some odd reason this morning when i woke up the first thing that came into my mind was the suffering and pain that humans deal with on a daily basis.

  again i'm not really sure what made me think about that so early in the morning.

  (maybe it was a dream i had).

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  Leander

  Unclepenn - I guess the issues I have are with the fact that mankind is for the most part being punished for giving into what comes natural to them as imperfect humans. Its one thing for a perfect person to deviate from normal acceptable desires to something erroneous, but as an imperfect human our basic desires are contrary to whats in the bible.

  For example lets look at the area of sex. In our society and in our imperfect state its a perfectly natural thing to want to have sex with those we are attracted to whether we are married to them or not. In fact this view is so prevailing that its almost considered unnatural or extremely rare for a person to reach a certain age without engaging in sex before marriage. Many JWs try to follow the bible's counsel in this matter but many of them either give into their desires, suffer from depression from suppressing those desires or some may be able to get married to satisfy those desires. However even among those who get married to try and avoid sinning they are usually quite a few who find themselves in bad relationships because the only reason they married was to be able to have sex without violating scriptural priniciples.

  So the point I'm trying to get at is this, because of sin mankind is strongly inclined to do exactly the opposite of whats in the bible. Its not because people are all evil but its because of their inherited sinful state. To illustrate its like a parent baking a cake and putting that cake in front of hungry children and then telling the children that they will be punished for eating the cake. The cake looks and smells good and all of the children know that it will taste good as well. What do you expect those children to do? Now in addition to the tempatation of the cake, there are some older children in the room. These older kids are using every trick in the book to get the first group children to eat the cake. What do you expect those children to do?

  As far as the freewill issue goes I've given that a lot of thought as well. Is it really free will if you have only one option for survival? If someone had a gun to your head and told you to pick up an object or else you would die, what would you do?
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  2

  Control Tactics

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i posted in another thread that the control tactics are probably ones of the things we look back on with a range of sadness to anger.

  here are a short list of control tactics i found harmful as one of jehovah's witnesses and whose wounds i still need healing from.. 1. shunning.

  clearly the most destructive control tactic.

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  Leander

  I could'nt agree more. It really seems to me that the WTBS just picks and chooses what scriptures it wants to use in order to further its own agenda.

  I can't even count how many times the Society has contradicted itself, but yet if a member of the congregation makes an unintentional mistake they are often publicly as well as privately humiliated. As if that was'nt enough they are made to feel unwelcome even among their own families.

  Also lets not forget the little buzzwords used to label various individuals who are'nt keeping up with the magical national average. "low-hour publisher" "inactive" "spiritually weak"
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  1

  Is the WTBS lead by strong spiritual men/Bullies

  by Jim Dee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is the wtbs lead by strong spiritual men or bullies?.

  the wtbs says it is strong spiritual men because:-.

  they are spiritually qualified.

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  Leander

  These same strong spiritual men have:

  on many occasions made false predictions
  sexually abused children
  made decisions that cost many people their lives
  added their own rules as to what christians should or should'nt do
  mentally browbeat overburdened members of its congregation for not spending more time in what they classify as the ministry
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  34

  Why the bible does'nt make sense to me

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for some odd reason this morning when i woke up the first thing that came into my mind was the suffering and pain that humans deal with on a daily basis.

  again i'm not really sure what made me think about that so early in the morning.

  (maybe it was a dream i had).

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  Leander

  Roybatty - good question, I wish I had what it took to just walk away from it all.

  Yoyomama - Here is the issue tho, lets just say that sometime next year God brings this system to an end and he says Ok humans I guess we all know that you really do need me. The issue would still be that for the past 6 or 7 thousand years IMPERFECT humans misled by the devil could not rule themselves. What about perfect humans without the influence of Satan and his demons, maybe they could rule themselves without God?

  So the problem is you still have an unanswered question. And to really be fair about it humans were never really given the opportunity to prove if they could rule themselves because during the entire time Satan was controlling and influencing mankind.

  Thats just one way of looking at it. Another angle is what about the billions of humans who never wanted to rule for themselves. They have to suffer just like everyone else. Where is the justice for these individuals? In many cases those people who attempted to live their lives righteously were tortured and killed for their beliefs. (remember Stephen)
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  34

  Why the bible does'nt make sense to me

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for some odd reason this morning when i woke up the first thing that came into my mind was the suffering and pain that humans deal with on a daily basis.

  again i'm not really sure what made me think about that so early in the morning.

  (maybe it was a dream i had).

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  Leander

  Moman - I don't know what to beleive in these days. But the bible just does'nt seem logical to me anymore.

  Here's another example. Because of Adam and Eve all humans were born into sin, the scriptures mention on several occasions that the inclination of man is bad from the youth up. Now lets throw Satan and his demons into this mixture, the bible tells us their primary function is to mislead and tempt as many humans as possible. Finally we know that the majority of mankind will be engaging in practices contrary to the bible. So with all of those odds stacked up against us, according to the bible we're supposed to ignore all fleshly desires and imitate Jesus a man who was created in perfection.

  I'm not saying it is'nt a good goal, but ignoring your natural tendecies to try and imitate a life style that we can never truly achieve in our sinful state is more than difficult. I know very few witnesses who have not been engaged in some type of conduct that did'nt require the elders being involved. And the ones who are seemingly going along without any trouble are either well up in age or keeping their past well hidden. I know it sounds like I may be exaggerating a bit, but I've been in the same area for almost 30 years and I've come to know quite a bit about the members in my congregation and the ones nearby.

  Its all so frustrating, and the WTBS does'nt help when they try and enforce their own rules upon people who are already struggling. Although I'm not the suicidal type I can understand why some JWs feel that their only way out is by taking their own lives. The burden is great
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  34

  Why the bible does'nt make sense to me

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for some odd reason this morning when i woke up the first thing that came into my mind was the suffering and pain that humans deal with on a daily basis.

  again i'm not really sure what made me think about that so early in the morning.

  (maybe it was a dream i had).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Leander

  For some odd reason this morning when I woke up the first thing that came into my mind was the suffering and pain that humans deal with on a daily basis. Again I'm not really sure what made me think about that so early in the morning. (maybe it was a dream I had)

  I find it extremely difficult to concieve that a God who loves humanity would allow 3 individuals to cause billions of people to suffer and die for almost 7000 years. To complicate matters even further the bible says the reason this is being allowed to happen is to basically prove a point. What loving parents would allow their children to be tortured and ultimately murdered just to prove that the parents knows more than the child? In my mind that kind of reasoning defies logical thinking.

  This is just one of the many things that I find hard to understand about the bible. And whats worse is that I feel guilty for having those kind of doubts. I feel like I'm betraying everything I've been taught as a child. But yet it still does'nt sense to beleive that God would allow us to suffer simply so it can be said that he knows more than us humans. I mean afterall if God is almighty and powerful is'nt there other ways to make a point without the loss of billions of lives?
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  9

  Can someone explain the "new light" o...

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been thinking about the change in this doctrine and i'm not sure i fully understand it.

  can someone explain it?.

  also was'nt there other changes made before in regards to this generation doctrine?

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  Leander

  I've been thinking about the change in this doctrine and I'm not sure I fully understand it. Can someone explain it?

  Also was'nt there other changes made before in regards to this generation doctrine? It seems to me that I read somewhere that it was previously thought that those who were old enough to understand what went on during 1914 would not pass away. And if I'm not mistaken the age of those individuals kept getting younger and younger until it was stated that anyone who was alive during that time was counted as being part of that generation. Am I correct in that understanding?
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  4

  Does anyone remember a scrip "masters over...

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm not certain but it seems like there was a scripture that went something like we are not masters over your faith.

  it might have been paul or maybe one of the other disciples talking to a congregation.

  i can't quite remember exactly where its at.. does anyone know what i'm talking about?

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  Leander

  Thanks
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  4

  Does anyone remember a scrip "masters over...

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm not certain but it seems like there was a scripture that went something like we are not masters over your faith.

  it might have been paul or maybe one of the other disciples talking to a congregation.

  i can't quite remember exactly where its at.. does anyone know what i'm talking about?

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  Leander

  I'm not certain but it seems like there was a scripture that went something like we are not masters over your faith. It might have been Paul or maybe one of the other disciples talking to a congregation. I can't quite remember exactly where its at.

  Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
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  36

  Some things that annoy me about the WTS

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm still currently a jw myself and i'm serving as a minsterial servant in a limited capacity.

  (a few weeks ago i was vocal about the doubts i've had and the elders made the decision to allow me to stay on as a ms but without giving talks) .

  1. recently as in the last few years i've been paying more attention to the various members in the congregation and i've observed some interesting things.

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  Leander

  I appreciate all the responses, I don't feel like I'm the only one with these issues.

  Troubled - I guess you and I are in a similar situation. I too feel like some things being taught are correct, in fact there are many positive aspects that I can think of. But on the other hand I can think of just as many negative ones. I realize some things I have problems with can be overlooked or maybe because of my own imperfections. However there are some serious issues within this organization that need to be adjusted if this really is the truth.

  Namewithheld - I could'nt agree more about some of thr programs being mind-numbing. The last district assembly I spent most of the time in the car pretending to listen to the program on the radio but I was really catching up on a few science fiction novels.

  I must say though I do enjoy it when a good speaker comes to give the public talk. Its a rare thing these days