Posts by bafh

35

Ive come so far but I cant move on - WHY NOT??

by GoingGoingGone in

hi everyone, i havent been here for a while but i do pop in and read whenever i can.

the economic downturn has left my jw husband with much less work which means hes home a lot, which means little jwn-time for me :( so many new ones here!

yay!

bafh

GGG....

I'm going through the same process in some ways. I'm not married, and own my own business [work from home] - I need to be with more people. It is funny to me though, because the JWs who talk to me now are the same ones who talked to me when I attended the meetings. No love lost there. Meetings for me were not a social support in very many ways because I didn't fit the mould of what a single woman should look like. I didn't pioneer, I wasn't struggling financially, I was ambitious with my own business, I wasn't pining for a man, and I was smarter than almost everyone I met. I'm not bragging in any way - but those were and are the facts of my life.

I went through a time where I tried to just stay to myself. It didn't work out too well. So now, like you I go to Meetup.com events which I'm enjoying a lot. If it causes you too much grief to join those events without your husband, can you do things while he is at work?? You can start your own meetup group, or suggest meetups during the day while he is at work. Doing some volunteering during the day would A) get you out of the house and around people and B) Get him used to the idea that you do things without him while he is at work. It could be something simple like volunteering to help kids learn to read at a school or volunteer with an organization that supports people with cancer.

I've been going to some meetups, and it is sort of awkward or uncomfortable at first. But, the whole purpose of the meetup is to meet new people based on common interests. People are generally friendly, nice, and introduce themselves easily. So far, I've two super nice people who have initiated being friends with me. Feels good.

You've got lots of options. Take it step by step. Oh, and keep up the therapy. I'm doing it now, and it's a bugger, but I believe that people heal through listening. Your therapist should be there to listen to you. And, if something itsn't working, let them know. It's their job to help you figure out how to make it work.

We're all rooting for you!!

160

Your best one sentence JW comeback contest

by moshe in

jw
friends

i am looking for your best jw comeback- the kind that makes a jw's jaw drop.

ok, even two pithy sentences will do.. here's one i have used before on jws,.

moshe: " do you know what an oxymoron is?

bafh

If God wants to kill me because I don't attend meetings, I'm fine with that.

26

I'm at a loss here

by sabastious in

jw
friends

my little 23 year old brother and his wife have been living with my wife and i, and our infant, for a few months now.

it has been a good bonding experience for all of us, at least it was on my end.. my little brother is in a band.

they travel all around the surrounding areas and play a mix between punk and 60s surf rock.

bafh

Time to call social services. Someone needs to step up for the children in the house and draw some boundaries.

I've called social services - your report is anonymous. Give them specific information. They will do a welfare check. At the very least it will alert the adults in the home how serious it is that that kind of activity is going on and that they need to step it up and make sure the children are safe.

bafh

21

To our fading and in-suffering friends, status report please

by Mad Sweeney in

jw
friends

if you're still in for the sake of others, how's it going?

what specific plan are you working on to get your loved ones out so you can leave, too?

how is that plan progressing?

bafh

I think it's all about what is right FOR YOU. It appears that many here didn't have the choice to fade. If you have the choice, and you are not trying to make a point to someone by DA yourself, then why crap in your own nest? Seems by fading, some have succeeded in accomplishing their need to escape out of the Org, while at the same time they have been able to maintain some normal relationship with those persons important to them who are still "in".
If it works for YOU, why care what anyone else thinks.
"Inauthentic"? That sounds like someone trying to manipulate you into making choices that you don't want to make.
Thanks DOC for your comments. I am one of those people who want to escape the ORG but maintain my family/friends relationships. You see who your true friends are if they still talk to you after you stop attending. I don't feel I'm being inauthentic. For me, that would be continuing to go even though I am miserable just to please someone else. I also know that fading is a process, and that attending and being miserable to please someone else is part of that. At this point, I'm beyond doing that - so for me, simply not going is authentic. I don't feel the need to criticize or critque - because frankly I don't care enough to think about it. I think that is MY authentic truth. To those still "in": May the FADE be with you....
BAFH

21

To our fading and in-suffering friends, status report please

by Mad Sweeney in

jw
friends

if you're still in for the sake of others, how's it going?

what specific plan are you working on to get your loved ones out so you can leave, too?

how is that plan progressing?

bafh

I'm fading. It's been nearly 2 years since I've been to a meeting not counting the Memorial or funerals. I plan on going to the Memorial again this year - although it will be out of town.

I own a small business and travel a lot, plus I've been going through a depression and having some physical problems. So, all of that has made it easier to not go. I did have a conversation with my mom a few months ago that I'm just emotionally tired, and right now - I just don't care. Which is true. I'm not angry with the WTBS, or with anyone associated with it - I don't feel any obligation to "get people out" because I don't feel it is my right to interfere with their choice in worship. I'm also sort of on the fence about some things - the WTBS COULD be right about some things - who am I to say? I don't agree with their methods, and I can't take the constant talk about how everyone is going to die, and how awful everything is, but at the same time I don't have the emotional energy to make a decision about much of anything either. I guess I don't care if they are right or not.

I have a little nephew that I'm really close to - and basically he is the reason I'm not more forthright with my views. I am not attending meetings, but I don't throw what I think in other people's faces either. I'm careful about what I say especially to my brother (nephew's dad) so that I'm not suddenly considered "dangerous." - it may happen anyway, but I'm not doing anything to give them reason to think that. I do have one friend who still thinks maybe I'll come back to meetings when I feel better. I haven't been straight out with her about not going back. She will figure it out soon enough.

I am working on building a life outside, slowly but surely it is happening. I've started dating (sort of tough at almost 40!), and have starts to good friendships with some of the people I've worked with as clients. I do think a successful transition must include friends outside - it can be devestatingly lonely without them. I've started going to different Meetup groups in my area, which is a great casual way to meet new people who share a common interest. I most often attend photography groups.

I had a friend tell me that I should be more bold - more authentic - about my stance. So I'd like feed back about that. Is fading inauthentic? I would argue that it is a process, and that if I'm not attending meetings, that is a pretty authentic move. I don't feel like I have to be in their face about what I think or don't think in order to be authentic. My actions speak for themselves, right?

bafh

38

Unbelieveable Bethel Talk-'Are you being brainwashed?'

by Joliette in

...cause surely, friends, were not brainwashing you!.

http://www.jwbrothers.org/play_audio.php?audio=1124&/.

bafh

I didn't last past the speakers heavy sigh into the microphone, the repetition of his theme and the question "what will my persecution be?"....ugh.

I did think it was really funny though that the website had an advertisment for numerology and Thai girls on it....way to go! Maybe we can work a deal and get a two-fer.

bafh

101

The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

by Spade in

http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

bafh

" The abuse of alcohol is condemned in Jehovah's Organization and this fact can be ascertained by getting to know them as individuals."
uh, some of the biggest alcoholics and alcohol abusers I know are JWs. It's the only "legal" vice they have besides coffee and food. They have a reputation for heavy drinking and gluttony. Anyone else notice how many severely obese people are sitting on the floor in wheel chairs or lawn chairs at the conventions?? They even made a resolution one year at the end of the convention that we wouldn't be gluttons.
yeah, sure. whatever .

39

Is it normal to quote without naming the source like WT does?

by InterestedOne in

i am noticing here and there that the wt literature will say things like "one bible dictionary says ..." or "one scholar says ..." and then proceed with a quotation.

my immediate reaction is to ask myself why they didn't provide the specific source of the quote - author, publication, page #, etc.

so i am wondering, do other magazines do this?

bafh

I asked a muckety muck one time why they didn't include references at the end of articles, and he said "do the popular magazines do it that way?" Well, no. But when they quote experts, they usually at least give the name of the person they are quoting. He did say that if a person wanted the references, they could write the writing department and get them. I'm tempted to start writing and asking for the references on EVERY article they write and see what happens.

The only book where they put an actual section for references was the blue Evolution book...and that was because it was aimed at science minded people. In the paperback Creator book, they also adequetly referenced the people quoted. But those are the ONLY two times I can think of where they did that. Although, as I am writing, I do remember in the begining of the Babylon book, the section about how Nimrod, and Marduk and the cross were all related that they quoted generously bible scholars by name.

Other than that...they don't do it on purpose I believe. First, they are appealing to an uneducated crowd who a) don't question it because they don't know that something is missing and b) aren't curious enough to question who said what. Second, if someone were to research their research, they might come to a different conclusion....and THAT of course would be a bummer.

bafh

84

Being honest with yourself, could you have reasonably adjusted your attitude and continued on as a JW?

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i ask this question in harmony with deedub's swan song thread which i linked below.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/205902/1/time-to-say-good-bye.

to some degree, i think i understand where she's coming from.

just speaking from my own experiences since stepping into the world of anonymous apostacy, i went through a few different phases of personal outlooks.

bafh

We simply don't have enough information. No baby, you don't have enough information but it's out there if you want it and are willing and not afraid to look. ~MrsJones5

I wouldnt agree that we dont have enough informatiom. We have enough information that proves the watchtower is a lying and destructive cult. Now, some people never read through all the information. But many who have could never go back. ~ YourMomma

I was referring specifically to Bible prophecy...a lot of churches teach similar things...but I don't believe that any human has enough information to make dogmatic conclusions about any unfulfilled prophecy. The WT tells us not to speculate, but personally when I read the magazines, all I see is speculation. If they would just say "hey, we don't know about ______. Let's focus on applying these principals of love, forgiveness, blah blah blah and be better people while we wait to see what happens." I would be thrilled. But they will never do that.

And yes, I do believe there is enough information about the WT Society itself to make anyone really have serious questions. If they were willing to be more transparent and willing to address questions or doubts directly, that would help me. But they aren't and I'm a person who requires a lot of information if I'm going to accept new ideas or reasoning.

84

Being honest with yourself, could you have reasonably adjusted your attitude and continued on as a JW?

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i ask this question in harmony with deedub's swan song thread which i linked below.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/205902/1/time-to-say-good-bye.

to some degree, i think i understand where she's coming from.

just speaking from my own experiences since stepping into the world of anonymous apostacy, i went through a few different phases of personal outlooks.

bafh

I know my experiences don't speak for everyone elses, but I have to say I just don't have a serious axe to grind with anyone in my congregation or JWs for the most part. My beefs with the organization stem from how much my upbringing has affected my life as an adult, and not being able to express all of my views with fellow JWs for fear of ostracism. To put it simply, I'm not a fan of the WT's micromanagement as they go beyond whats written.

This is how I feel. I'm sort of on the fence about some of the theology. They could be right, or they could be wrong. We simply don't have enough information. I've often classified myself as an Agnostic JW - because while I believe in the basic Christian tennets, there is so much prophecy that we don't have perspective on - or the right to come to any definitive conclusions. Everyone has the right to believe what they want, and although my family was effed up, it can't be blamed on religion. My family would have been effed up no matter what religion we happen to be. I don't have an axe to grind, and I'm not particularly angry. I would like to just walk away without being threatened with not communicating with my family again (particularly my nephew). So, I'm doing a fade...and it's more strenuous this time than last. I think if I can be faded this time, I'm not ever going back...I don't think i have it in me to do again.

I'm almost 40 years old, and I'm tired of living my life on hold. I think if I were a personality that fit in to the social structure of the congregation easier, I could fake it. But I'm not, and I can't. And frankly, when it comes right down to it: I don't care. I don't care enough to struggle with my doubts. I don't care if I do actually die at Armageddon or by the hand of God. I am not afraid of heaven, hell or death. I just don't care.

And, at the same time - I have a lot of sympathy for those who do feel bitter, angry and all the other negative emotions that get expressed here. You have every right to feel that way. I used to about some things...and I'd just like to suggest that everyone work on letting that anger go - for the benefit of no one but you...being so angry and bitter is not good for us. But forgiveness and compassion make our lives better especially if we are able to forgive people who don't deserve it.

BAFH