Posts by DarioKehl

61

Hello Everyone...Just Joined Today

by DarioKehl in

i've been reading this thread for some time and finally had the opportunity to create an account.

i am anxious to meet you all and have a support group/active audience over the next crucial months and years following.

background: long-time doubter, giving way to frustration and skepticism beginning about 10 years ago and finally to total admission that this is a cult and that atheism is the way to go.

DarioKehl

Common apologetic argument, Cold Steel...

But this is the typical "God of the Gaps" routine and believe me, we evil atheists hear it alllll the tiiiiiime.

Everything denotes there is a God. ...incredible order and symmetry that exists in the cosmos.

Ok, explain how that denotes a "god." Just because things are orderly and symmetrical does not offer proof of your claim that an all-powerful "god" exists. By your logic, you have backed yourself into a corner. For if your "god" exists, who made Him? And don't default to the usual apologetic answer that "He has no beginning." Infinite regression is an invalid form of argument. I want you to PROVE to me... How do you know God exists? And for something to exist, by your very logic, it must have had a beginning. So where did God come from?

I can easily give you a scientific reason for "order" in the universe. It's called entropy. If you take liquid butane and put it inside a tank of water in a zero-gravity environment, guess what--the butane forms a PERFECT sphere. But how??? Doesn't that violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics???? Actually, no, not at all. Different substances have different factors for entropy (or, the tendency to be in a state of disorder) and it just so happens that the chemical properties of water cause it to "want" to be in a disordered state more than butane does. So what you see as an end product is water shoving something else into an apparently orderly fashion because water has a higher tendency to rest in a disordered state.

Evolution is the same way. You point to a creature so perfectly fit for its surroundings and credit an intelligent designer. But, you must not fail to ignore that 4 billion years of trial and error fine-tuned that organism such that it appears to be a miraculous design of purpose. I hate to pee on your pop tart, Cold Steel, but think of the advantages you have now WITHOUT a "jealous and angry God" above you!

381

Were you or someone you know sexually molested by a Jehovah's Witness ?

by flipper in

due to the fact there are about 27,000 members of this religion that are known pedophiles, and the information about it is kept in a secret database file, i wonder how many lurking jw's as well as others are aware of the severity of this problem?

remember, it's 27,000 pedophiles that they know about.

what about the thousands that don't get caught?

DarioKehl

I know of several people who this happened to. Although I refrain from blaming the local elders directly in the cases i'm familiar with, I do feel that the protocol they are forced to follow by the GB/WTBS is dispicable. Also, and I'll get this out of the way very early in the game (I'm new here as of yesterday), I can speak from experience that being a single male in his 30's in this organization isn't easy either. I routinely dealt with slander coming back to me... questioning my character. Because I wasn't married to a pio wife with 2.5 kids, an SUV, a carpet cleaning job and $50K in debt like some of them were, I was constantly bashed and my morality was questioned or often the subject of hurtful jokes (usually by ones who were in that married situation and miserably jealous). Bottom line is, people in the JW Org, even the busy-body gossip mill, know that this molestation thing is an issue. And if you're unfortunate enough to not fit their expectation of what your demographic should be, you could easily find yourself the subject of very hateful and hurtful gossip.

But it's all gooood... I know the truth. I like who I am. I'd never victimize a child. I just happen to be a bisexual who was never able to get closure from within this organization. So sure! You BET I never got married. But that doesn't make a guy a pedo!!! Sad thing is, we had a guy attending our hall who was on the sex offender web site and, after some sisters at the hall were reportedly being abusive to him, there was a local needs part about "treating everyone with kindness." Hahaha... that's rich, isn't it? A real offender gets defended from the platform and I get gossiped about on a regular basis by FRIENDS.

BTW: That's not the reason I decided to get out. I'm not that petty. These people are too close-minded for me to ever expect them to address an issue like GBLT sexuality. Whatever...

21

more Jan 15 Study WT: I caught you looking at porn! You better tell the elders!

by baltar447 in

jw
friends

so we've seen flipper's thread discussing the jan 15th wt.

well in the article following the one discussed in that thread, you have discussion about turning in your friends.

apparently now they aren't content to turn in for "gross sin".

DarioKehl

Unbelievable! ugh...

I remember being "in" and paragraphs like that taking control of my behavior. I was such a snitch in those days. So superfluous now...the excuse..."Indeed, it could lead to Steve's losing his relationship with Jehovah." LOL!!! Once you come to realize that GOD DOES NOT EXIST and that we are all electrically charged meat, walking bags of phospholipid bilayers, thermodynamic disasters none of this MATTERS. It's mind control! And it totally screws up a boy's mental, sexual and emotional development. TRUST me... it DOES.

I will have children some day and they will whack it freely, without any fear or guilt and it won't be one of those "what-if" taboo subjects in the house...no, no...they will KNOW it's 100% AOK and that mom and dad are totally on board. Ridiculous.

34

Watchtower claims Armageddon will come when US is no longer a World Power

by Alfred in

just when i thought the wash towel was done trying to interpret the book of revelations, i came across this from paragraph 16 on the last page of the march 15, 2011 watchtower.... .

the urgency of the times we live in is underscored when we consider the inspired prophecy at revelation 17:10. the seventh king, the anglo-american world power, has come into existence.

concerning it we read: when he [the seventh world power] does arrive he must remain a short while.

DarioKehl

Perhaps they're finally acknowledging that globalism is likely going to be attempted before "The End" arrives. I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories, but there has been a noticeable "tip toe to totalitarianism" for several decades and it would easily fit their doctrine concerning the "appointed times of the nations." JWs reason that God allowed the human race to try every conceivable form of government (federalism, communism, socialism, nationalism, fascism, blah-blah-blah) but one form that has yet to be tested is the "One-World Government" so many end of days people believe is surely coming.

I see things transitioning to a Global Government, and sadly, this will likely add to their rhetoric in the coming decades they just earned with the new "overlap" clause. I won't be surprised at all if the WT and Awake! start admitting that some of the conspiracy theories are right, but they'll do so very carefully so as not to appear as nutty as David Icke or Alex Jones (ex: they'll mainly focus on UN, etc but avoid such controversial topics like vaccines and fluoridated water being part of a global eugenics agenda and... they'll stay away from the whole alien reptile thing lol).

*BTW, if anyone has the KM insert from 2005/2006 (?) containing all the "adjustments" to the 1988 Revelation Grand Climax book available as PDF, let me know! as part of my project, I plan to focus only on modern-day changes. everyone already knows about the reversals from 1860s-1995. Although relevant, those changes have been talked about and talked about and the WBTS has given the sheeple plenty of rehearsed responses to counter individuals who bring those failed prophecies up. I think the younger folks could really benefit from seeing all the recent ones presented in a concentrated format. That's what nailed the coffin shut for me!

61

Hello Everyone...Just Joined Today

by DarioKehl in

i've been reading this thread for some time and finally had the opportunity to create an account.

i am anxious to meet you all and have a support group/active audience over the next crucial months and years following.

background: long-time doubter, giving way to frustration and skepticism beginning about 10 years ago and finally to total admission that this is a cult and that atheism is the way to go.

DarioKehl

@loz

Yeah, i know, i know. I'm used to writing a lot of academic papers too and the tone of those is always a little hoity-toity. I'm sure I'll loosed up and get comfortable over time. I just wish for topics i start on here are easy reading for people we need to rescue. The amount of guilt and fear we deal with is tremendous and some just don't want to face it.

I'm in to torture apparently because this migration out of the bOrg is like slowly tearing a bandaid from an excessively hairy leg wound. Many people say, "Just rip it off!" But for me, I stand to lose a lot of close friends. In my area, my last name is synonymous with "good JWs" because my parents are spiritual pillars within the JW community. This sucks. This battle ahead is terrifying. I'm going to be labeled and known as the one who initiated the collapse of our family. But I can no longer tolerate living for everyone else. I can no longer tolerate belonging to another organization whose policies have killed 2 close friends of mine (blood doctrine). It's time to call them out. When I decide to leave, I want it to be on my own accord and I hope to refer the brothers to my project. Who knows, maybe it will enlighten them someday (I borrowed that phrase from my pioneer days after leaving a mag in the door at a not-at-home lol).

"tech-savy" well...ok, I'm kind of lazy and am looking for quick answers on how to start a podcast on iTunes. I've read up some, but I just purchased a brand-spanking new iMac and I grew up on Windows. Yeah, it's kinda like my transition from JW to atheism...lotsa de-programming involved and new applications to learn. I guess my biggest question is, are podcast servers terribly expensive? I've got my first few episodes ready to go! I know I'll make no $$$ on this, but I'm afraid to commit to something unless I know how much expense is involved (more learned behavior...fear of commitment lol).

12

Family Worship Evening, The Mormons Had It First

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

this has been commented about on here before but since this weeks service meeting has a continuation of the article "help for families" i thought it would be appropriate to mention that the jw family worship evening, appears to be direct copy of the mormons family home evening.

if you have the january 2011 km, compare the insert to the resources found at the official latter day saints website on how to conduct the family evening.. http://lds.org/hf/fhe/welcome/0,16785,4210-1,00.html.

DarioKehl

I sometimes wonder if the Watchtower looks with envy at the Mormons.

sir82, You better believe the WBTS have envy! "Why didn't WE think of tithing???" The Mormon church is fabulously wealthy. But, they are possibly making their tax-exempt status vulnerable due to their recent strong arm tactics in California with Prop. 8. You can't be tax-exempt and financially back political candidates.

12

Family Worship Evening, The Mormons Had It First

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

this has been commented about on here before but since this weeks service meeting has a continuation of the article "help for families" i thought it would be appropriate to mention that the jw family worship evening, appears to be direct copy of the mormons family home evening.

if you have the january 2011 km, compare the insert to the resources found at the official latter day saints website on how to conduct the family evening.. http://lds.org/hf/fhe/welcome/0,16785,4210-1,00.html.

DarioKehl

Yes, they do have excommunicating. It's equivalent to JW disfellowshipping, but immediate family is still permitted to acknowledge the person's existence. From what i could gather, their term "disfellowship" could be substituted for the JW term, "reproved." It's a lesser degree of punishment. if you want an excellent source on mormons, get on iTunes and subscribe to the "Irreligiosophy" podcast. 2 ex Mormons do a wonderful job (albiet sarcastic and full of hilarious profanity) of analyzing Mormons, their own atheism and they give analysis on all other major denominations (ohhhh yeah, there are 2 episodes about the 'dubs). Eps #41 and #44.

12

Family Worship Evening, The Mormons Had It First

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

this has been commented about on here before but since this weeks service meeting has a continuation of the article "help for families" i thought it would be appropriate to mention that the jw family worship evening, appears to be direct copy of the mormons family home evening.

if you have the january 2011 km, compare the insert to the resources found at the official latter day saints website on how to conduct the family evening.. http://lds.org/hf/fhe/welcome/0,16785,4210-1,00.html.

DarioKehl

Absolutely! This is one of the more recent oddities that JWs should know about! Interestingly, once I became atheist, I was free to study many other religions (again, to learn their strategies for future debating) and it is shocking to me how many of the recent changes in doctrine, policy and "pure language" vernacular made by the WBTS mirror that of the Mormons! Especially the creepy-sounding new songs. The songs smack of "churchiness" but are also eerily similar to long-standing Mormon hymns. When I discovered the terms "Family Evening" and "Family Worship Evening" it just about blew me away. When I pioneered, I received literature from a Seventh Day Adventist (she said, "I'll take yours if you take mine" and I accepted, much to the dismay of the elder/pio driving the car). The pictures, tone and doctrine were almost identical. It wasn't until years later that the internet allowed free, anonymous research to discover that yes, JW and 7th Dayers share a common ancestor. (Funny how religions reject evolution when they evolve as well).

In speaking with a few ex-Mormons, they also have stories of intense pressure to subscribe, behave, conform and deny. Two people I've spoken with recently shared stories about the prodding from friends and family to do their 2-year mission. Unfortunately, for those kids, it's inescapable. But the interesting thing about Mormons is, their policies on disfellowshipping (yes, another shared term) are much more liberal. Family members do not abandon those who decide to leave on their own will. *sigh* ...wish we had it that easy. It would be worth wearing the magic underwear.

61

Hello Everyone...Just Joined Today

by DarioKehl in

i've been reading this thread for some time and finally had the opportunity to create an account.

i am anxious to meet you all and have a support group/active audience over the next crucial months and years following.

background: long-time doubter, giving way to frustration and skepticism beginning about 10 years ago and finally to total admission that this is a cult and that atheism is the way to go.

DarioKehl

Thank you all!

GREAT question, Sab!

That's one for a topic but since you asked, I'll give you the deets: I was skeptical about my belief in God since age 9, and His own worst enemy are all the accounts in the Old Testament. For a 3rd grader to study accounts where a Lot would offer his daughters up for a gang rape, or Jeptha giving his daughter up as a burnt offering in the All Scriptures Inspired book and then hear the spin about how "God's righteous indignation," "universal sovereignty" and "love for us" justified actions like those can really mess with a kid's mind! If the Bible says that he gave her up as a burnt offering, why did our books and magazines insist that this phrase means something more benevolent...like making her attend the "Bethel" of that day? If those words aren't meant to be taken literally, who says that 144,000 is literal? And for a kid of course, why do all the kool things in Revelation have to be symbolic? I wanted to see multi-headed beasts come out of the ocean! I had problems with "who decides what means what."

But growing up Dub, you understand the intense pressure to fit in. To satisfy your parents. To conform. And decades of cognitive dissonance hijacks your future! I "became" an atheist after majoring in Biology. I wanted to "study the enemy" and arm myself with their knowledge. I felt I could counter their arguments with my Bible-based "accurate knowledge." I hung in there for a few semesters and finally had to give up lol!

As far as "admitting it to myself," well... with that comes the difficulty of facing the fact that this life is all we have. It's kind of depressing at first and I was upset with myself for discovering this. NOW what??? I have nothing to hope for after this??? Yikes! The idea of never seeing dead loved ones was also very tough. But, something amazing happened...the anxiety and panic attacks that bothered me through the teens and 20s went away! I think the skeptic 9-year-old was clamoring to escape this cage he was in and the fairy-tale version of "happily ever after" in a peaceful new world never seemed real to me. This manifested itself in severe depression/anxiety. Why couldn't I buy in to this idea when so many intelligent adults around me believed it enough to bang on people's doors and try to convince them TOO???

Very tough to come to terms...but, it's also a new awakening. If this is all we have, by golly, we need to make the best of it!

61

Hello Everyone...Just Joined Today

by DarioKehl in

i've been reading this thread for some time and finally had the opportunity to create an account.

i am anxious to meet you all and have a support group/active audience over the next crucial months and years following.

background: long-time doubter, giving way to frustration and skepticism beginning about 10 years ago and finally to total admission that this is a cult and that atheism is the way to go.

DarioKehl

I've been reading this thread for some time and finally had the opportunity to create an account. I am anxious to meet you all and have a support group/active audience over the next crucial months and years following.

Background: Long-time doubter, giving way to frustration and skepticism beginning about 10 years ago and finally to total admission that this is a cult and that atheism is the way to go. However, I'm still a member of the bOrg officially and will not reveal any identifying hints about my identity/whereabouts until after I make this leap.

I also plan to do something active that few ExJWs have done well and I'll keep everyone updated about this project. Take it from me though, people my age and younger are fed up and this organization is about to start hemorrhaging members. I have never seen this much disenfranchisement before and the WBTS is obviously aware of it. For the first time in my life, they appear to be taking defensive measures.

I'm a pretty decent character, not much into promoting my atheist agenda or engaging in petty ridicule by bantering or mudslinging (as I've seen a few times in these forums). My ultimate goal, or overall mission (with this new project on the horizon), is to prove the WBTS's Reasoning Book definition of "apostasy" WRONG. There are many, many examples on here and on the www where an active, "see-I-told-you-so" JW could reference to validate their loaded definition. I feel very strongly that JWs who discern the palatable change in tone and environment within the bOrg need an outlet--a place to go to that will not make that initial click of the mouse so painful when they begin their journey of independent thinking. Some websites are just plain scary and a questioning JW who already carries tremendous guilt and fear is likely to run for the hills after seeing certain "apostate" material. When debating, it's very important to engage them on their terms and try to embolden their naturally-driven instinct to search for understanding. As I become more and more acquainted with some of you, perhaps I'll eventually loosen up and lose the formal tone. For now, I will probably come across as a little pretentious, but please understand, I feel I have a reason to be as dignified as possible. Therefore, you won't see me using foul language or take a side in a heated argument between members of this board. (if you knew me in real life, you'd see the "party Dario" tho, ...trust me, I'm a very chill person, lol) It would be very "dub" of me to "counsel" you guys on that, so don't worry--I'd never do it. However, when I do create a new topic, please keep your posts dignified and remember who our audience is: scared, trapped, doubting people who are faced with making the most difficult decision of their lives and they need to feel safe and comfortable when visiting this page.

Ok, I'm off my soap box. It's a good thing I'm not working on "gestures" because none of them are visible in text. Feel free to introduce yourselves! And if any of you are tech-savy, let me know...

PHILIA! (no watered-down agape here, haha)

DarioKehl