Posts by DarioKehl

26

What age should you get baptized?

by newcomer1982 in

as from today i am disfellowshipped.

my parents cant talk to me and alot of issues have arisen which i have mentioned in my other posts.

i got baptized at 14 and i think it is way to young to make such a decision which will affect your whole life.

DarioKehl

Even the KKK doesn't allow anyone under 18 to join. No, I'm not a member. Some racist punk who rode my bus in 8th grade was pissed that he couldn't join yet.

26

What age should you get baptized?

by newcomer1982 in

as from today i am disfellowshipped.

my parents cant talk to me and alot of issues have arisen which i have mentioned in my other posts.

i got baptized at 14 and i think it is way to young to make such a decision which will affect your whole life.

DarioKehl

It's ILLEGAL to enter a binding contract with a minor. This CORPORATION does just that, but is protected under the umbella of religious freedom.

It's ILLEGAL for a minor to marry, make most on-line purchases, obtain a credit card, go on a field trip, receive medical treatment, skydive, bungee jump, rent a vehicle or stay outdoors past certain hours without WRITTEN CONSENT or SUPERVISION from a parent or guardian.

It should be ILLEGAL for any minor to commit to any religion, group, club or association until they're 18 or 16 with parental consent, especially when they stand to lose if they change their mind later.

How many of us made a decision when we were 7-15 that we still agree with or are bound to? Still have the same boyfriend/girlfriend? Still have the same favorite movie? Favorite food? Future goals? People CHANGE. Adults are at least aware of the ramifications when they enter an agreement. It's ridiculous!

68

Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?

by cedars in

it's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.

the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.

wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.

DarioKehl

Seriously, Magwitch! I can't tell you how many times as a kid I experienced dashed dreams and hopes. So many pathways cut off! Think about it:

"I wanna be a cop some day." OOPS. Nope. Can't carry a gun.

"I wanna be a rock star." OOPS. Nope. Can't. Look what happened to Michael Jackson.

"I wanna be a teacher, doctor, lawyer..." OOPS. Nope. Can't. I'd have to go to college. Bad.

"I wanna illustrate books/paint." OOPS. Nope. Bethel could always use an artist though! And signing your own work is BAD.

"I wanna make a lotta money doing SOMETHING." OOPS. Nope. A camel will crawl through the eye of a needle before I'd ever get into the new system.

Glad I went to college anyway and learned allllll about evolution. And I sign ALL of my artwork.

5

Just a thought about a WBTS Long-Term Survival Tactic

by DarioKehl in

i've been lurking on here for weeks and thinking.... after seeing all the recent noose-tightening in wt rhetoric, it does appear that they are shooting themselves in the foot.

with the miserably low retention rate, burdened and uhnappy elders and the zombified elderly paralyzed in cognitive dissonance, it is inevitable that the numbers are going to dwindle sharply--and soon.

i predict that by 2014, there will be major doctrinal changes that make "overlap" look like a walk in the park.

DarioKehl

I know of 2 people who are still in but don't believe anything. The only reason they're staying in is because they have a lot of inheritance coming their way. Good thing my parents don't have much! I'd hate to be bound by the fear of losing a fortune. Mark my words... we will see this admonishment in print soon. I can just see it now:

"Although many faithful servants of Jehovah have invested their time building spiritual treasures in heaven, some may have felt it necessary to build a financial savings as they near retirement age. As this system nears its end, it is wise for true Christians not to rely to heavily on their wealth since we will all soon be "throwing our gold into the street." However, many have made a fine witness by willing some assets in their personal or family estates to the WBTS to further the preaching work in the remaining days of this wicked system. In some cases, perhaps a certain beneficiary of an inheritence is no longer a faithful servant of Jehovah. IT WOULD BE UNWISE FOR TRUE CHRISTIANS TO INCLUDE SUCH PERSONS AS BENIFICIARIES IN ANY WILL. Rather than benefiting anyone who chooses to eat at the table of demons, would it not be more wise to forward such assets toward an effort for expanding the kingdom message? Perhaps a donation could be made to the worldwide preaching work or the international building fund."

5

Just a thought about a WBTS Long-Term Survival Tactic

by DarioKehl in

i've been lurking on here for weeks and thinking.... after seeing all the recent noose-tightening in wt rhetoric, it does appear that they are shooting themselves in the foot.

with the miserably low retention rate, burdened and uhnappy elders and the zombified elderly paralyzed in cognitive dissonance, it is inevitable that the numbers are going to dwindle sharply--and soon.

i predict that by 2014, there will be major doctrinal changes that make "overlap" look like a walk in the park.

DarioKehl

I've been lurking on here for weeks and thinking...

After seeing all the recent noose-tightening in WT rhetoric, it does appear that they are shooting themselves in the foot. With the miserably low retention rate, burdened and uhnappy elders and the zombified elderly paralyzed in cognitive dissonance, it is inevitable that the numbers are going to dwindle sharply--and soon. I predict that by 2014, there will be major doctrinal changes that make "overlap" look like a walk in the park. Will they have to start referring to "Christ's Millenial Reign" as "Christ's 900-year Reign?" Probably not. IF they stick with 1914, they'll just say the New System will less than 1000 years before Satan is released again in the final test. However, I believe it will be necessary, as they see their numbers drop, that they will have to dump 1914 altogether and maybe just refer to is as "a significant period marking the last days." That will cause membership to fall as well. Whatever happens, they will HAVE to change something major to keep the doctrine alive. In doing so, many will leave. So, I have a theroy...

With a massive walk-out, there will be major financial losses as contributions dwindle. Hence the sellout of the Brooklyn properties. But recently, there was an article (posted here a few weeks ago) discussing ways to contribute. Well, do the math. We have an even STRICTER elders' manual. We have been inundated with articles about apostacy and dealing with DF'ed people. The articles seem less and less biblical and more and more propaganda encouraging loyalty to "the organization." By drumming up a frenzy of anti-apostate, anti-nonwitness, anti-DF, anti-faded mentality, I can see how easily the WBTS will encourage those remaining, loyal, long-term dubbies to make donations through estates. That's right. It's kind of implied now, and many dubs do this on their own (dangle inheritence as incentive for relatives to stay inside). But mark my words. Soon, they will specifically call on all R&F to NOT LEAVE ANY PART OF THEIR ESTATES TO DISFELLOWSHIPPED RELATIVES. This scare tactic will work. They've already begun demonizing us. The tired old loyalists are dying off and they know it. What better way to buy time, absorb the massive decline in membership and accumulate enormous tax-free wealth than to specifically punish members who leave their DF/Ex/apostate relatives any inheritance. Don't think it can happen??? Look at the strongarm tactic of threatening elders and MSs who attend or allow their kids to attend college with the fear of being deleted. It CAN happen. And I believe it will.

Thoughts?

68

Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?

by cedars in

it's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.

the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.

wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.

DarioKehl

1. No Smurfs

2. No skydiving/bungee jumping

3. No talking about what you want to be when you grow up because "The new system will be here by then! How DARE you!"

4. Becoming an object of mockery (Obligatory praying in public, especially in a large group at a restraunt after a meeting. Convention badges. Having to sit through the national anthem).

5. No voicing an opinion of any kind on current events, even minor comments about natural disasters without having the topic hijacked or stolen and turned in to dub rhetoric.

6

Letters buying cars for Watchtower reps

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

letters buying cars for watchtower reps. .

today i uploaded a new article to my blog showing how automobiles were provided to circuit and district overseers prior to the centralized leasing program started in late 1988. goings on behind the scene are mostly unknown to witnesses today, and in large degree the same was true back then.

my article is titled letters buying cars for watchtower reps and is available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/09/letters-buying-cars-for-watchtower-reps.html.

DarioKehl

Marvin...

I know and have personally spent time with the family who owns the dealership where the society leases their vehicles. Hit me up. I know the elder/owner of the dealership. They're a typical "$$$mega dub$$$" family who always seemed to get away with certain behaviors that would land any ordinary dub in the B-room. I could go into detail, but I'd rather discuss it in PM so I don't reveal anything about my identity.

7

So Sick About This "Rape/Scream" Thing I Could PUKE!

by DarioKehl in

religion in general takes away enough human dignity as it is: born in sin, indebted to christ, worthless, imperfect, dirty, and in need of salvation.

watchtower takes it to a "whole-nutha level" for people in search of this salvation: hoarding the heavenly hope to a select few, demanding faith only by enough works (...and then only "probably you" may be saved), cock-blocking our way to christ by claiming he only mediates for them...etc.. in addition, their oral laws rob us of individualism, free thought, investment in future, healthy sex lives, education, free choice, association and emotional and financial stability.. any story of rape or molestation we read about uses one word when referring to the victim: innocent.

when a woman or young person is raped, we read that "their innocence was stolen" when that crime occured.

DarioKehl

Religion in general takes away enough human dignity as it is: Born in sin, indebted to Christ, worthless, imperfect, dirty, and in need of salvation.

Watchtower takes it to a "whole-nutha level" for people in search of this salvation: Hoarding the heavenly hope to a select few, demanding faith only by enough works (...and then only "PROBABLY you" may be saved), cock-blocking our way to Christ by claiming he only mediates for them...etc.

In addition, their oral laws rob us of individualism, free thought, investment in future, healthy sex lives, education, free choice, association and emotional and financial stability.

Any story of rape or molestation we read about uses one word when referring to the victim: INNOCENT. When a woman or young person is raped, we read that "their innocence was stolen" when that crime occured. The WT has now held our very INNOCENCE hostage. Not only is our salvation "PROBABLE" and subject to qualification, we must now QUALIFY for our own innocence if our bodies are violated in a violent sex crime. I am absolutely furious about this. Even recently, part of my conscience would still give the GB/WBTS the benefit of doubt, but I cannot do that anymore after learning this. Here's why I'm so upset...

OK, Lemmie get this straight:

1.) JWs are not allowed to own or use handguns without loss of privilage or good standing, right?

2.) JWs are not allowed to take self defense classes without loss of privilage or good standing, right?

3.) When Jesus died, he nailed the Mosaic Law to the "Stake" with him, right? (We're allowed to eat pork, opt out of circumcision)

4.) The majority of us (and active JWs) are aware of what pornea/fornication is as interpreted by WBTS, right?

SO...

IF a baptized person is raped or molested, having no allowable training or weaponry with which to defend themselves, is violently subjected to sexual assault and doesn't scream, their very INNOCENCE is up for grabs by the body of elders?!?! Based on a law that DIED with Jesus and doesn't even fit the definition of fornication?!?!? I'm sorry, but fornication/pornea involves consenting parties, doesn't it? Or did they happen to leave that qualifier out of their definition in the new "Slaughter the Flock" book???

Every one of us needs to think about our mothers, our wives, our sisters and our young kids for a second. Imagine they fall prey to rape, molestation or sexual assault. Imagine their shame, disgust, guilt, fear, anger and terror. Imagine the humiliation after talking to detectives, prosecutors, possibly taking the stand in a trial, identifying the perp, having the story publicized in the news--and during all of that--having to sit before a panel of 3 totally unqualified men who ONLY give a DAMN about determining whether or not the victim QUALIFIES for innocence as dictated by their elastic and flawed interpretation of their hateful God's dictates. Imagine if their hope in "the organization" was the only constant left in their lives, the last place they feel they could attain refuge and then realize, "Hey wait a sec... I was supposed to scream? Now I'm in the HOT SEAT looking at private reproof AT THE VERY LEAST and DF for SURE if I cop a TOTALLY JUSTIFIABLE ATTITUDE?????"

This came as a shock to me. I had never heard of this before and I've been a JW my entire life. This "scream" requirement is probably not well known by many active JWs and I'm sure many vicitms are shocked when they're hit by this REQUIRED question. I'm sure the local elders don't really enforce this, however, the mere action of bringing up the question in the first place is a tactical GUILT maneuver, fostering feelings of self-hate and doubt for the rest of the victim's life. HOW DARE THEY APPLY THIS EVIL EVIL EVIL BRONZE-AGE LAW to such a sensitive modern topic!!!!! Why THIS? They don't stone bratty kids to death anymore. A husband doesn't stone his adulterous wife anymore. Yet they KEPT and ENFORCE the most disgusting law of them all?!?! These guys are truly sick FUCKS.

I'm sorry... I gotta to to my KRAV MAGA lesson so I don't HAVE to scream!!!

20

Rape can be fornication myth in the 1990s?

by Chemical Emotions in

although it was wrong for the wtbts to claim this i the '60s, '70s, and '80s, i'm pretty sure (correct me if i'm wrong) that most "experts" believed it too.

idk.. but did most people believe, especially experts -in the 1990s- that if you don't scream or fight when threatend with rape, you have committed fornication?

the wts did.

DarioKehl

Oh. Em. GEE.

I never knew this! How could I have possibly overlooked this, especially since it was written as recently as 2003 when I was in the center of the lion's den? You know what? This pretty much did it for me! I am speechless. And angry. THIS should be on Crazy Rick's protest banners--who cares about blood and 587/607 and "overlapping?"-- this is epic information!

Does anyone know from actual experience (or through the grapvine) if molested children are also questioned about screaming, or do the elders take a more sensitive approach? I'm furious about the misogyny as it is. But if establishing this "Did you scream?" factor is their primary concern when dealing with a terrified and violated child, I see street riots in Brooklyn.

pssshhh!!! ..."did you scream"... RIDICULOUS!

18

Need some advice, PLEASE!

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

i don't even know where to begin but i'm having trouble with my oldest son (grown) who just moved back home.

he recently got fired and kicked out by his roommate because he has (in my opinion and the rest of my family) an alcohol and pot problem.

he doesn't think he does because he can go days without either, a whole other story.

DarioKehl

Having tried both pot and spice, I can testify that spice is much, much worse. It felt like a seizure! Extreme panic, paranoia and a feeling that my body had been poisoned. That crap is marketed with a "not meant for human consumption" sticker so the manufacturers are clear. Very little is known about the production of the synthetic cannabanoids and 2 close friends of mine have vomited while using it. Slowly, in my state, it is being banned by county. As well it SHOULD! Pot and synthetic versions of cannabanoids are extremely powerful psychoactive compounds that have been shown to mimic schizophrenic brain activity and should NOT BE USED by people who are already prone to that disorder or who suffer from general anxiety and paranoia. I hate the way I feel everytime I use pot or spice and vowed last summer never to do either again. You son is taking a huge risk to his mental health and spice is TOTALLY unresearched, especially as far as any long-term effects go.

I'm sorry to hear this... does he respond well to common sense or logical reasoning? Perhaps show him (in a "non-worried mother" sort of way) the harmful effects things like this have on his body, his mindset and his overall behavior. Weed is much more "healthy" than alcohol, tobacco and synthetic crap and he will probably throw that common argument in your face. However, the smoke inhaled, even through bongs, is much more sticky and tar -filled than cigs. My biggest question is, if he is exhibiting schizo/paranoia traits anyway, WHY ON EARTH does he enjoy taking substances that make it worse??? Has he ever had a total panic meltdown on it? Maybe that's what it will take--that's what got me to swear to never play with that stuff--or anything else--ever again!

good luck!