I read both the books last year ...and just recieved CofC 4th Ed. 'cause I wanted to see what was new.
After reading the books, everything going on finally came together for me.
Posts by Lieu
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50Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?
by 67mustang ini am interested in ray franz.
can anybody comment on him?
i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.
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POLL: New to This Board? Please Sign In Here!!
by Seeker4 ini don't get to check this board as often as i'd like, but i have noticed that there seems to be a huge number of new posters here.
every day that i get to check out a few posts, i notice new names.. so, just a polite request.
if you've just started posting here in the last few months, would you mind posting a quick note on this thread?
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Lieu
Hello...I've posted several times already....just checking in.
Let's see....I've been baptized for over 15 yrs and at one time was a Reg Pioneer. I'm sure I was considered 'rebellious' since I went to College while pioneering. Majored in Computer Graphics/Publication Design since I had aspirations of going to Bethel. (plus I was really into computers) I was given a Bethel application from McMillain during a DC but the local elders said they didn't think I was needed there.
No elders come to bother me so I'm pretty much left alone. (unlike some unfortunate souls on this site) Not disfellowshipped nor disassociated, yet....I just stopped going regular in '92 'cause I was sick and tired of the silliness. Also, the half a Bible verse here and there out of context thing used to drive me up the wall. Another sour point with me is that I couldn't stand the way Jesus was put on the back burner as if Paul was much more important than our redeemer. Christ is hardly ever mentioned and when he is its just as if en-passe. I began to feel like I should be a follower of Paul and the GB, not Christ. (Paul was a excellent man and a fine example but he didn't die to release me from anything...'ya know)
It was during a WT study that I decided not to return; can't recall what the study was about but I remember there was something in it that jumped off the page and totally contradicted a prior lesson. I do recall that whatever it was I couldn't stop staring at it. I don't know where (which cong.) my publisher card is located....and honestly don't care. When I was younger, I used to constantly pray for the friends to show real love for one another because I couldn't see where they had any.....the one true mark of Christianity was seriously lacking throughout the org. as a whole.
My mother is a hard core JW and brother is an unbapt. publ. ..... My father is not.
Oh, and my Username is my rank in the local PD....always trying to help save people. :) (I must be a glutton for punishment)
edited for spelling errors.
Edited by - Lieu on 20 July 2002 18:31:40
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Dubs Would be Totally Lost.........
by Farkel inthe topic of this thread is mostly directed towards jehovah's witnesses who still have some ability to think.
this topic is important to those jws who may have some doubts about their religion, no matter how small they might be.. i'm going to make perhaps, a rather startling assertion and instead of presenting all of my arguments for it, will invite others to contribute their own arguments.
if a person was to ask a number of jehovah's witnesses what was the single most important part of their religion, a variety of answers would be given, and without question, all of them would be wrong.. to put it another way, if one had the power to take away just one thing from the watchtower religion that would render it impotent and foundering like a beached whale, what would that one thing be?.
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Lieu
BTW Farkel, if you hadn't said it already, I was going to state affirmatively....Bethel. (printing stuff)
You know, for some strange reason, when younger, I used to think about this issue all the time. I used to wonder while looking around the Hall....if something happened to Bethel (GB, printing, et al) and all we had was our Bibles, how many people in this room would actually survive the GT? How many? How many would be able to think? Let's say there was REAL persecution....stuff like what the REAL Christians went through. (ie. burnings, being sawed in half, etc.) How many people would break because they don't really have faith....they're just kinda going along for the ride while the ride is pretty good? How many would be able to carry on without someone telling them exactly what to do every second? How many bros would be able to hold a topical meeting in the wilderness with only their Bible? How many at the wilderness meeting would even begin to know how to discuss simple bible books?
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Before you open that door....
by Bona Dea inthings that you definitely will not learn upfront: (and again, this is just a few...).
fight against independent thinking.
6-8-1986, page.9 would that all were prophets!.
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Lieu
I've always found it interesting that the majority of the Gov. Body were college edumacted but never seemed to want anyone else to be.
HMMMMM?????
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What's Wrong With Having Hope?
by DakotaRed ini have noticed for some time now, that when anyone mentions having hope in something said by the bible, some come forth and start asking pointed questions designed to denigrate that hope.
if one says they hope there is a god, someone else will come on ask how could that be because of all the ills in the world.
if it is said that one hopes the earth will be restored by god, another will come on and start asking what about lions being vegetarians, and eating birds and mosquitoes and such.
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Lieu
Hope is a wonderful thing!!!...A lesson from Dorothy (WizOfOz) in her hope to get back home. She didn't just wait around with her hope; she put that hope into action and made personal effort to achieve her hope.
MHO is that we have to work with our hope....or work towards gaining our hopes.
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Watchtower Moves In For Kill On silentlambs
by silentlambs indraffenville
congregation
of jehovah's witnesses
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Lieu
I haven't been "regular" at "meetings" for over 10 yrs, Grits. (Mostly because I work swing shifts.)
However, I do still like to go to see how everyone is doing. As for what I consider the lecture part of it all, I endure that because my mother is there. Even when I was young, I had problems with certain aspects of JW lectures. The "plug-in" half of a scriptural verse here and there has always bothered me. Particularly since I had actually read the Bible (I used to love to read everything as a youngster) and knew when a verse was being mis-applied or just entirely used out of context. I would find myself reading over the entire chapter of a quoted scripture during the meeting. I know quite a few others who do this also. I have always been fascinated with the Bible.
Ex. JW Sunday boretalk with real quick mention of 1 Tim 5:17..."let the older men be reckoned worthy of double honor....yes, friends the elders deserve our extra honor."
What happened to the rest of that scripture? Where's the part about "presiding in a FINE MANNER"?.... the indiscriminate deletion of key portions of the scriptures drive me up the wall.
Besides that, I absolutely hate lectures...and poor question and answer sessions (If that's what you want to call them).
Once, during a Watchtower study concerning the splitting off of the Orthodoxy, I rose my hand and commented with some info NOT from the mag. My comment had to do with the one group crossing with three fingers and the other with two...as the divine nature caused a serious fallout between the two groups. Anyway, it just about stopped all breathing in the Hall and I think most were turning pages to see if it was somewhere in the "lesson".
I apologize to all for going off topic.
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Children of God know what to do.
by Bleep injehovahs people pay the authorities taxes.
they do not go to war but the churches unite with the military.
its too bad those bishops can not control the men that have a vow of celebacy.
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Lieu
Those that take time every week to learn about Gods requirements and fundamental principles would help.
These folks are found in every religion....and yes, JW requirements and priciples with a "twist"....Its hard to force people back under the Mosaic Law, isn't it? You do realise that Christ taught us what God taught him to say? If Christ gave only TWO Commandments (well actually three with the memorial) for everyone to follow....it kinda makes God's requirements and principles pretty easy to understand and follow.
Learning? Could you explain the corrolation between Moses, Aaron, Jah and Christ? Discuss the book of Ephesians? So, why was Abraham the only person to be called God's friend? Really, what have you learned?
Not going to war could be a big part of being Gods chosen ones and being like preciouse jems. There were a few good people like Job that were blessed with health and riches
Job wasn't an Israelite. You do know that, don't you? Interesting that the most faithful person Satan could find was not from the nation of Israel.
Being united and having the same meetings throughout the earth. All this being a free service. You dont see our elders or speekers making a huge profit for services.
If you have ever lived in another country, you would know this is not true. The study article for Sunday would be very different in Africa than in the US. Nothing is free, just wait until they do the accounts summary at the end of the month.
Its just so sad to see Exjws trying to come up with something better and spending way too much time finding fault with the rightious. Puts me to mind of Satan trying to make me cry over spilled milk if I do something bad. Jehovah will forgive if you want it.
I'm glad that some people have proclaimed themselves to be self-righteous. Holy and sanctified are we? Got any proof? Are you "Holiness", "Adventists", or JW?
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Why? Why can't JW's ADMIT there's a problem?
by pomegranate insome one asked: .
>>i don't understand.
i honestly do not understand how active jws can be presented with hundreds upon hundreds of cases that have occurred all over the world, and casually deny that there is any problem.<<.
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Lieu
Actually, I think it goes further than what we may think.
If a problem was admitted (of this magnitude) the general file JWs would start asking in what way these matters are being handled incorrectly. Then the GB would have to divulge information to the regular JWs such as found in books and letters which most regulars don't know exist. Next thing you know, the regulars will start to consider that they don't have ALL the info the society publishes ... secrets are being withheld from them ... secrets which show how the elder body operates ... a book which spells out the rights of individual members. Stuff of which MOST have never been told. I say MOST, because the majority of JWs are female.
If regular Jws had a copy of the Elder book, how many pathetic JC could the elders get away with committing before being called to task for not following the book...or if most saw what was in that book they may be inclined to think poorly of the Org?
I think they main concern is with the CONTROL aspects.
Edited by - Lieu on 18 July 2002 19:44:13
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Watchtower Moves In For Kill On silentlambs
by silentlambs indraffenville
congregation
of jehovah's witnesses
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Lieu
No, they did not DF or Da me, Grits.
I've been to one JC....but they felt so bad after I finished, they (Elders) haven't bothered me since.
I remember one day telling the MS handling literature 'happy birthday'. One of the elders happened to be standing at the counter when I said it...he almost fell on the floor. :) He asked me why I said it, and I asked him didn't he hear the MS incessantly telling me today was his birthday? Did the MS not leave me alone after I wished him a 'happy birthday'? The elder then called the MS into the "library of death". Personally, I thought it was hallarious.
The problem with the majority of JWs in the USA is that everything is sooooo distant and impersonal that the Org. might as well just be another commercial business. Not many seem to have a vested interest in the well being of anyone else....butt backwards. At least, that's my opinion.
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Watchtower Moves In For Kill On silentlambs
by silentlambs indraffenville
congregation
of jehovah's witnesses
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Lieu
Needless to say, Inqusitions are still being carried on in this day. I see no difference in a JW JC than in a medevil Catholic Inquisitor session...It's all one big secret using secret rules, and the logs are piled up at the stake before the session even beigns. Why? Because if you confess to following Christ and not the men, you will burn. If you declare you are innocent due to following Christ and not the men, you will burn. Either way, you burn.
Its a no-win situation when dealing with imperfect human zealot nuts. Their judgement doesn't count anyway.
Just be happy that in the end, when you answer to the only ONE who matters and who judges righteously, you will win for following Christ and not men. When it counts you win and they will lose.