Lionel_P_Hartley

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Posts by Lionel_P_Hartley

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  46

  UN involvement announced at Assembly?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i heard from someone that the wts was going to or had already announced something about the un involvement at an assembly.

  anyone else heard of this or is it a local thing ?.

  i would guess they may have only done this because of the coverage in the uk national newspaper which they know they have to counter.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  thewiz,

  Nobody is defending the Catholic Church. The Tablet is not an organ of the Catholic Church and can and will print whatever it likes, including articles that point to severe problems with the Catholic Church, as well as other religions. The WT magazine, otoh, contains demonstrable lies that the WTS refuses to correct.

  That having been said, what eaxctly don't you like about Bates' article - other than that it was printed in the Tablet? Butthen again, what about his Guardian articles? Be specific and honestly tell us what's wrong with it. I'll start by noting that the article confuses the scarlet coloured beast with Babylon the Great. So, what else?

  Lionel
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  26

  Steve Bates Article on UN/WTS in Tablet newspaper

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  steve's article has just been released.. i have posted the particulars and links on the big un thread and linked below.. ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=13530&page=22&site=3.

  the tablet is a clergy newspaper that is read by a lot of high up people in both main churches in britian.. congratulations steve.

  his article is front and centre.. .

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  JanH,

  You're right about what the Wild Beast and what the image of the beast are, according to the WTS. However, as MA points out, in Rev. 17 there is yet another beast, the scarlet-coloured one, which is different, according to the WTS from the orginal beast (yr beast!) and which the WTS maintains is the same as the image. See Babylon Book or Revelation Climax.

  Lionel
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  1

  The Tablet, The Watchtower, Child abuse and thewiz

  by Lionel_P_Hartley in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  thewiz has commented on how, because the tablet is a catholic weekly, we are all hypocrites for reading it, or attributing any weight to it.

  likely it is out of ignorance that thewiz fails to recognize that the tablet is not published by the catholic church.

  however, can anyone here imagine that paragon of truth, the watchtower, publishing a story like the following about a jw elder who molested children?

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  thewiz has commented on how, because the Tablet is a Catholic weekly, we are all hypocrites for reading it, or attributing any weight to it. Likely it is out of ignorance that thewiz fails to recognize that the Tablet is not published by the Catholic Church. However, can anyone here imagine that paragon of truth, the Watchtower, publishing a story like the following about a JW elder who molested children? http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00043 Of course, the WTS would make great capital out of a catholic priest who molests while covering up what happens in their own organization. Perhaps that should have been be featured in this month's hypocrisy article in the Watchtower.

  So which journal is the more to be trusted? Can you answer, thewiz?

  Lionel

  ps: and here's another http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00427
• 
  46

  UN involvement announced at Assembly?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i heard from someone that the wts was going to or had already announced something about the un involvement at an assembly.

  anyone else heard of this or is it a local thing ?.

  i would guess they may have only done this because of the coverage in the uk national newspaper which they know they have to counter.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  thewiz,

  I only assume that you had never heard of the Tablet until recently. Your characterization of this journal is absurd - can you imagine the Lords of the Borg in Brooklyn allowing the publication of something like this http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00043 in their Wathtower magazine (Brooklyn's Daily Liar)?

  Your calm and mild spirit seems to have deserted you, as has your ability to respond to the actual charges contained in that excellent publication, the Tablet.

  Lionel
• 
  46

  UN involvement announced at Assembly?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i heard from someone that the wts was going to or had already announced something about the un involvement at an assembly.

  anyone else heard of this or is it a local thing ?.

  i would guess they may have only done this because of the coverage in the uk national newspaper which they know they have to counter.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  anewperson,

  Actually the Tablet has quite a substantial raedership in the US and Canada as well. If you go to http://www.thetablet.co.uk you can actually find out which specfic Churches in the US take it, although not individual subscribers obviously. Might be an idea to contact priests/bishops etc at those churches who will b esure to have read the story.

  Lionel
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  20

  WTS Encourages Hatred 1.12.01WT

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  examine the following statements and tell me if you think the wts is irresponsible in its furtherance of religious hatred which is an evil plaguing the world today.. 1 article 1. of the un declaration of human rights.

  all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

  they are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.. .

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  I haven't read the article, but I do think that Earnest has a point. In all my time as a JW the emphasis was on hating "things" or "behavious" and not "people." Of course, the reality is that the acts JWs perform, e.g., shunning, are essentially the same as hating; nevertheless, JWs don't generally consider that they hate the person and will accept anyone back who repents according to JW rules.

  I can also see the logic of quoting a dictionary's definition in its entirety and then using or emphasizing only one of the possible definitions. After all, what would a definition of hatred be if it didn't include the possibility of it referring to people. To me, too much is being read into this article, at least based on what I've read so far.

  Lionel
• 
  46

  UN involvement announced at Assembly?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i heard from someone that the wts was going to or had already announced something about the un involvement at an assembly.

  anyone else heard of this or is it a local thing ?.

  i would guess they may have only done this because of the coverage in the uk national newspaper which they know they have to counter.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  BX,

  The Tablet has a circulation of about 21,000 officially. However, the readership consists largely of professional clergy (many in very high places) and religious affairs correspondents of a variety of newspapers. In addition, copies in churches and church libraries may be read many others as well.

  Why not send a copy of your letter to the editor of the Tablet at

  [email protected]

  I have written one, but the more they get the better. Especially do I like your slant on hypocrisy in November.

  Lionel

  ps: what is CCI? Do you have a link?
• 
  26

  Steve Bates Article on UN/WTS in Tablet newspaper

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  steve's article has just been released.. i have posted the particulars and links on the big un thread and linked below.. ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=13530&page=22&site=3.

  the tablet is a clergy newspaper that is read by a lot of high up people in both main churches in britian.. congratulations steve.

  his article is front and centre.. .

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  waiting,

  According to the Society the image of the Wild Beast and the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast are one and the same thing - the League/UN.

  Lionel
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  18

  Do JWs still believe the WT version of the 144000?

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the society have taught for many years that only 144,000 individuals will have embraced true worship from the time when jesus (and presumably john the baptist six months before him) began his ministry in about 30 c.e.

  when the great crowd began to be drawn in.. however, even a casual reading of the book of acts shows the phenomenal growth of christianity during the time of the apostles.

  in colossians ch1 paul even makes the comment that the good news had at that point been preached to all creation that was under heaven.. in 64 c.e, there were so many christians in rome already that nero felt he could easily blame them for the destructive fire which had swept through the city.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Ranchette said it....
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  20

  How Reliable is the WT Observer?

  by Pureheart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry for duplicating this post.

  i made a mistake and posted on the wrong forum.. my question is, can we rely on the observer to give us accurate information on the jws.

  i ask this question because i have read many disturbing things about the society in its early beginnings.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Pureheart,

  The WT Observer tends slightly to the sensationalist. Not everything it says is accurate but most of what it says merits investigation, and most is correct. Part of the problem with the small number of somewhat inaccuarte reports is that Kent, not being a native English speaker, sometimes misunderstands nuances in the language. This is only a problem because most WTS stuff is produced in English.

  I am no supporter of the WTS, but don't rely on the Observer 100% unless you have done the research. It is, as I say, a jumping off point.

  I do very much respect Kent's energies, and also his willingness to correct what he has posted when problems have been pointed out. But errors propagate proportional to the amount of stuff that one publishes.

  Lionel Hartley