Posts by lisaBObeesa

236

What is your definition of a "Fundi" or a Fundamentalist?

by brotherdan in

i've been called a "fundi" many times in my discussions with people on the board, and i'd like to know what your definition is of a "fundi".

don't google it.

i just want to hear your personal definition.. i find it interesting because i don't go to any church.

lisaBObeesa

To me, a fundy is a person who puts the rules that he finds here and there in the Bible over the Big Idea of the Bible: “Love your neighbor.”

A fundy is Bible believer who takes everything in the Bible very literally.

9

not sure if there was a thread like this before, but.... there are times that certain books touch us in our spirtual lives, sometimes in an emotional way, other times in a theocratical way.. the shack by william young touched me deeply and renewed my faith in jesus and god.. in search of christain freedom and crisis of conscience by raymond franz, made me aware that the issues i laways had with organized religion were not just mine.. question of consceince by charles davis, showed me the the issues that mr.franz faced in the wt were faced by other in the rcc far earlier and made me understand that we must truly server christ and not any man-made organization.. the jesus i never knew by philip yancey, which i read after the shack motivate dme to read the nt with new eyes.. the nrsv of the nt with greek interlinear, one of the best study interlinears i have.. the oxford bible commentary, a must for any student of the bible.. .

lisaBObeesa

The Problem of Pain -- CS Lewis

14

Local pre-school nursery discusses issues relating to children of Jehovah's Witnesses - interesting!

by nicolaou in

this is a pre-school nursery in my local area.

some of the staff are discussing how to handle jehovahs witness parents and their pre-school children.

there is a lot of common sense here but one poster stood out to me for all the wrong reasons :(.

lisaBObeesa

I think it is a terrible loss that we have no more holidays in the schools in my area.

I think it was perfectly fair as it was when I was a kid: If you don't want to celebrate a holiday at school because of your religion you can particiapate in some other activity.

It's so sad that EVERYTHING has been scrubbed now. culture is important.

66

Could Teaching Critical Thinking Abilities, End Cult Mind-Conrol Forever?

by lifelong humanist in

in my mind, every child that undergoes an education system, whether it be a within the family, a basic pre-school kindergarten type structure, within a monitored school curriculum environment itself, or, as part of a further education programme, the emphasis should be on teaching people how to think critically, and for the common good of all.. if this was indeed the case, probably very few would succumb to mind-control techniques later on in life.

cults would struggle to dupe and recruit new members.

the cult leaders themselves, would derive little benefit from their evil mind games.

lisaBObeesa

Of course all children should be taught good critical thinking. Of course. And of course that would cut down on the number of people caught up in cults.

The trouble is that many cults indoctrinate people by very slowly and systematically dismantling their their critical thinking by using using tricks of the mind.

There is a bit of covert hypnosis that goes on. At bit of short-circuiting the brain. An attack on the mind.

A certain percentage of humans are, by nature, very suggestible. These people can have their minds tricked despite having been taught critical thinking skills. Watch Derren Brown convince a person that red is black or some other such nonsense. Their brain believes red is black because it has been tampered with...it has been tricked with covert hypnosis, not because of lack of critical thinking. (also notice how Derren Brown uses the subject's emotions as tool to manipulate her mind, to disable her critical thinking. He doesn't play on emotions, as we might suspect he would. Rather, he uses emotions as tools to manipulate her thoughts. It is quite diabolical, and disgusting, really.)

In fact I think that under the right circumstances almost anyone can be a victim of this sort of thing. And I do believe cults employ some of these tactics.

Of course good critical thinking skills will help lessen the risk. But a person also has to be...on alert...aware at ALL TIMES that this kind of mind trickery is out there so that they will not be fooled. It only takes a split second of the tinyest bit of misplaced trust and your mind can be manipulated by those who want to control your thought so that you think red is black...or that bad is good...or that giving them all your money is a good idea...

but then, of course, a very good education in critical thinking would include information and warnings about this sort of mind trickery.

So yeah. Critical thinking = good. I'll stop rambling now.

217

Feb. 15th WT - WT Society says DFed Ones are Lawless- Just Like Demons

by flipper in

jw
friends

i would assume that some or a good number of us here as normal humans in this society - consider " lawless " actions to include murder , robbery, extortion, rape, child abuse, war , terrorism, etc.

the wt society has their own definition of what's considered " lawless ".

anything that's considered a disfellowshipping offense in the jehovah's witnesses is now considered " lawless ".

lisaBObeesa

Our sister loved Jehovah, but she also
loved her son and found it extremely difficult
to apply the Scriptural command to
avoid associating with him.

My sister always says that it is her choice to speak to our DF mother or to not speak to our DF mother, and that she is free to do what she feels is right in this regard.

It's a matter of conscience she says, and her conscience won't allow it.

But this article says that it is a 'Scriptual command' to avoid associating with DF family members.

In light of this, it seems that my sister now does NOT have a choice, and her conscience is no longer part of the equation.

36

who and how did they come up with this cover

by therevealer in

.

lisaBObeesa

I don't know what that cover even means.

It means Jehovah's Witnesses are not angry, they are not overworked, they are not depressed, they are not uncomfortable, they do not have very young children who behave badly age appropriately and they dont have James Dean attitudes.

Jehovah's Witnesses are happy and calm and at peace...at all times.

Now put on a happy face, dang it!

24

Why Don't JW Congregations have a Choir?

by journey-on in

even if it were just four or five good singers that practice during the week and get to know the new songbook well, this would benefit the whole congregation.

music is such a vital part of the overall emotional connection to the gathering, a well-rehearsed choir singing along with the congregation would encourage and uplift, don't you think?.

what is the society's reasoning for not doing this?.

lisaBObeesa

Because UNITY is their most important value and everyone can't be in 'the choir'. Everyone must be the same, do the same thing, look the same.

They can't have one congregation having an awesome choir and another having a not awesome choir or whatever.

There can't be differences.

Unity, unity, unity.

98

Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different

by Doubting Bro in

jw
friends

i've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime jws here recently.

i thought i would add to that collection and recount a discussion i recently had with my dad and a small group of folks about his age.

quick background on the group:.

lisaBObeesa

Sir82 said:

Re: the topic at hand, I think the change happened with the "generation change" Watchtower in 1995 (there's been so many you have to specify which one). Looking back, there seems to be a slow, steady, deflation of spirit since then, as people began realizing that, yes, just like every human who ever lived before them, they will grow old, get sick, and die.

Reading this I was struck by a thought (ouch!):

Unlike most religions, The Watchtower was not designed to meet the lifetime spiritual needs of its members.

The Watchtower was designed to meet a short term goal of getting its members through Armageddon. It was built as an emergency fallout shelter of sorts, for a disaster that was supposed to be here long ago.

Several generations have sat obediently in the ‘bomb shelter’ living off teachings and beliefs that were only supposed to last a few short years.

But now they are running out of ‘food.’

41

Ostracism: anyone with legal background on this forum who could help?

by Nick! in

jw
friends

here in europe, we have started different initiatives aiming at exposing publicly and legally the watchtower on the subject of ostracism, discrimination and shunning.. in the past we have seen different manifestations held in front of kingdom halls or branch offices on issues such as pedophilia and blood transfusions policies, and even, such as in france, against building of real-estates.

now it seems that the issue of discrimination against disfellowshipped or dissociated people is gaining momentum.

we have seen the large demonstrations in brazil, and maybe the lesser important ones elsewhere.

lisaBObeesa

I've always thought that the weekness in the WT possition was in the cases of people who were baptised as children and then later shunned. How can a child be held responsible for entering into this most serious contract...?

41

Ostracism: anyone with legal background on this forum who could help?

by Nick! in

jw
friends

here in europe, we have started different initiatives aiming at exposing publicly and legally the watchtower on the subject of ostracism, discrimination and shunning.. in the past we have seen different manifestations held in front of kingdom halls or branch offices on issues such as pedophilia and blood transfusions policies, and even, such as in france, against building of real-estates.

now it seems that the issue of discrimination against disfellowshipped or dissociated people is gaining momentum.

we have seen the large demonstrations in brazil, and maybe the lesser important ones elsewhere.

lisaBObeesa

"The freedom of religion stops where individual rights are infringed. No one can claim freedom of religion, if their religious practices include stoning to death those who want to leave the religious movement.

"Shunning is social stoning to social death, not by personal choice but by order of the religious leaders of the WT!"

There has got to be a way to persue this. It is so frustrating that it is so difficult...

The problem that arises is that the United States (along with Iran) refuses to sign key portions of the International Declaration of Human Rights that covers religious issues. Since we are not parties to the agreement, no cause of action exists from which one could pursue a case at the Hague.

So could exJWs in other countries that ARE paries to the Declaration of Human Rights pursue a case at the Hague against WT Branches in those countries? Or does the fact that the WT headquarters are in the US make that impossible?