Posts by Shanagirl

I didn't make that statement about Gnositsm beingwritten by Magicians. Look back in the forum and you'll see that Ixthis made that comment to me .

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

I am new here. I believe Jesus is the exact opposite and does not have anything to do with the creator god of the Hebrew Scriptures. That god is the "blind god" who is known as Yaldabaoth in older stories from pre Bible times. He is spoken about in the Apocryphal book of John, were Jesus identifies him. Jesus emmianted from the True God of Light who begot him thru his forethought. Jesus refers to the True God as Light, Love, ineffable, unnameable, the All. Yaldabaoth identifies himself as I Am the only God, there are no other Gods but me" I am a jealous God.......... This false creator being is the creator of corruptible matter and is the god of the OT who ordered blood sacrifices and mass murders of men women and child virgins. He scared the Israelites into exlusive worship of him and the Christ who came and is mentioned in the New Testament, has never endorsed this Jehovah , Yaweh Yaldabaoth god as his Father. I believe the Gnositc Christian teachings about this, and I think the ancient Paulinian Christian Fathers kept this information out of the New Testament Scriptures. Jesus is the the one in the beginning with the Word of God, and the only begotten emmination of the Father who is speaks the words of the True God, not the Jehovah gods (Elohim). Anyway, so this is what I get from those teachings

31

You-Tube Deprogramming JW's -Interview w/ 2 Elders About Child Abuse

by flipper in

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anmrufrgtky&feature=related.

Shanagirl

pompous assholes

8

Gospel of Thomas?

by Chariklo in

i have a question, not really directly related to jw's but maybe something will come from a discussion, sonce gnosticism and non-canonical texts have been discussed recently.. through my mind today has been running the text "cleave the wood and i am there.

" it was first sent me nearly thirty years ago on a card, by a nun.

i didn't know where it came from, but soon afterwards i heard of the gospel of thomas and somehow thought it came from there...maybe i read it, don't remember.. anyway, this evening, not knowing why this particular text should be in my mind i decided to do a bit of online research.

Shanagirl

The Gnostic Christians' books are below in the Nag Hammadi Library alphapbietical indelx

Click here: Nag Hammadi Library Alphabetical Index It has been shown that the Gnostics identified this imperfect demiurg-“god” with the god of the Old Testament, who they also called Yaldabaoth, who wants to keep humans in a state of ignorance in a material world and who punishes their attempts to achieve knowledge and insight (to “eat from the tree of knowledge”.

The demiurg is a lesser god who wants to be the only one.

The text The Apokryphon of John (or The Secret Book of John) states:

“He is impious in his madness, she who dwells in him. For he said, ‘I am God and no other god exists except me’, since he is ignorant of the place from which his strength had come” .

(Cf. Ex 20:23 and Deut 5:7)

Could this be the explanation of all the abominable cruelties, which after all are literally described in the Old Testament?

8

Gospel of Thomas?

by Chariklo in

i have a question, not really directly related to jw's but maybe something will come from a discussion, sonce gnosticism and non-canonical texts have been discussed recently.. through my mind today has been running the text "cleave the wood and i am there.

" it was first sent me nearly thirty years ago on a card, by a nun.

i didn't know where it came from, but soon afterwards i heard of the gospel of thomas and somehow thought it came from there...maybe i read it, don't remember.. anyway, this evening, not knowing why this particular text should be in my mind i decided to do a bit of online research.

Shanagirl

In the early Christianity there were two mainstreams: the Paulinian and the Gnostic Christians. Saul had pursued Christians until he converted and became Paul. The year of his conversion is estimated to be between 33 and 35. The Paulinian Christianity began to develop only after that. Who were the Christians that Paul pursued? They will especially have been the so called Christian Jews. This concept refers to groups among the earliest Christianity, to which belonged Jews who still adhered to Jewish customs - like Jesus and his disciples themselves (because they had to assimilate with the local culture after all, despite their divergent beliefs).

Out of these Christian Jews arose the movement of the Gnostic Christians. Because of his views, Paul came into a conflict with this original Christianity.

Hence the Paulinian Christianity didn’t arise out of the original Christianity, and with Paul, who hadn’t known Jesus himself, an obviously modified Christianity began, that distanced itself from the Christianity close to Jesus that was in the beginning. For the Gnostics, the creator of this world wasn’t the true prime creator, but a demiurg, a “craftsman”, a fallen angel, who also has an evil side.

While the real God, the true prime creator (who Jesus calls “father”) is unrestrictedly good, an imperfect demiurg created an imperfect world.

8

Gospel of Thomas?

by Chariklo in

i have a question, not really directly related to jw's but maybe something will come from a discussion, sonce gnosticism and non-canonical texts have been discussed recently.. through my mind today has been running the text "cleave the wood and i am there.

" it was first sent me nearly thirty years ago on a card, by a nun.

i didn't know where it came from, but soon afterwards i heard of the gospel of thomas and somehow thought it came from there...maybe i read it, don't remember.. anyway, this evening, not knowing why this particular text should be in my mind i decided to do a bit of online research.

Shanagirl

Introduction

There is a growing consensus among scholars that the Gospel of Thomas – discovered over a half century ago in the Egyptian desert – dates to the very beginnings of the Christian era and may well have taken first form before any of the four traditional canonical Gospels. During the first few decades after its discovery several voices representing established orthodox biases argued that the Gospel of Thomas (abbreviated, GTh) was a late-second or third century Gnostic forgery. Scholars currently involved in Thomas studies now largely reject that view, though such arguments will still be heard from orthodox apologists and are encountered in some of the earlier publications about Thomas.

Today most students would agree that the Thomas Gospel has opened a new perspective on the first voice of the Christian tradition. Recent studies centered on GTh have led to a stark reappraisal of the forces and events forming "orthodoxy" during the second and third centuries. But more importantly, the Gospel of Thomas is awakening interest in a forgotten spiritual legacy of Christian culture. The incipit (or "beginning words") of Thomas invite each of us "who has ears to hear" to join in a unique quest:

These are the hidden words that the living Jesus spoke,
and that Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down. And He said:
"Whoever finds the meaning of these words will not taste death."

The Gospel of Thomas Collection -- The Gnostic Society Library Click here: Nag Hammadi Library Alphabetical Index

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

Shanagirl

ixthism, I do get what you are saying when you mention

I would say that the demon of heresy and confusion is the nastiest since he robs people from the true Way and Life.

Heresy is the label gives to heretics, just as apostasy is the label Watchtower gives to JW's as apostates. The imporant thing to me is to choose sprirituality that is not religiosity or organized dogma that persecutes others who choose to worship differently. I choose to embrace the following concepts from Christian Gnostism. I think it enriches the Gospels in Christ's teachings in apochrypal book of John. The message is comforting to me in many ways, after being in such an authoritarian judgemental, punishing religion of Watchtower. I also have read about the Watchers and rebellious angels in pre flood time. I found this very facinating and supplements the Genenis account of the Flood.

The bottom line about the
New Testament is that it consists of demonstrably errant
and fallible books chosen and canonized by a corrupt
Catholic Church. It was the Roman Catholic Church that selected
and canonized the books of the New Testament. It was not
God Most High who did so.
All ancient New Testament manuscripts, of whatever
text-type, in whatever language, from whatever location,
whether fragmentary or full, were copied and passed
down by Catholic scribes--whether Roman or Byzantine--
or some other branch of the Catholic Church. Choose
whatever ancient manuscripts you like; they arrived via a
corrupt Catholic Church, with it's official seal of approval.
Like it or not, mainstream Christian, you are using the
Catholic New Testament. Even the titles given to the four
"canonical" gospels are simply a tradition of the Catholic
Church. Those four gospels were originally anonymous,
and the current names they bear were an afterthought
tacked on by the Catholic Church to give these four
works a boost over their competition in the battle for
universal acceptance. Irenaeus also stresses the unity of the Old Testament and the Gospel. In the final volume, Book V, Irenaeus focuses on more sayings of Jesus plus the letters of Paul the Apostle

The purpose of "Against Heresies" was to refute the teachings of various Gnostic groups; apparently, several Greek merchants had begun an oratorial campaign in Irenaeus' bishopric, teaching that the material world was the accidental creation of an evil god, from which we are to escape by the pursuit of gnosis. Irenaeus argued that the true gnosis is in fact knowledge of Christ, which redeems rather than escapes from bodily existence. Until the discovery of the Library of Nag Hammadi in 1945, Against Heresies was the best-surviving description of Gnosticism. According to some biblical scholars, the findings at Nag Hammadi have shown Irenaeus' description of Gnosticism to be largely inaccurate and polemic in nature Though correct in some details about the belief systems of various groups, Irenaeus' main purpose was to warn Christians against Gnosticism, rather than accurately describe those beliefs.

The Catholic Church, by accepting the Hebrew Bible in its
literal interpretation, and by not including the fact that
the gods the Jews worshipped were satanic beings, continued
to mislead the general public by promoting the tribal god
Jehovah – Yahweh Ildabaoth the Demiurge as the Supreme
Being.

The Church then set about establishing a political and
religious empire based upon Old Israel’s model for living
and blended Yahweh Ildabaoth the Demiurge in with the
teachings of god Mithra etc. Emperor Constantine and his
coherts in Rome worshipped many evil gods, which they
blended together as one god in the Orthodox Jewish and Roman
Catholic Canon. Only the Christian Gnostics stood in their
way. It was the Gnostic Christians who taught the teachings
of Jesus (Yashua) and tried to preserve the writings written
by his followers. These heroic people were deemed ENEMIES
OF THE STATE OF ROME AND THE NEW JEWISH AND ROMAN ORTHODOX
RELIGION. The Gnostics quickly found themselves viciously
denounced as heretics and their sacred books were banned
burnt by Roman autoriites. Thanks to the miraculous
discovery of several Gnostic scriptures at Nag Hammadi in
Egypt, just fifty years ago, we can gain a better insight
into the Gnostic Christian communities of the
early centuries AD.

In Gnostic work uncovered at Nag Hammadi called The
Apocalypse of Adam, which is an enlightening account of the
creation story of Adam and Eve that dates back from the
first century, we find an account of a statement allegedly
made by Adam. In this account he states that his creator
was an evil god and that the original creation of man did
not occur by these evil agents but by highly enlightened
beings known the “Watchers” who took direct orders from
OUR HEAVENLY FATHER who is the eternal GOD and Jesus Yashua
long before he incarnated in his physical body. Adam claims
that mankind resembles the beautiful “Watchers” and not
the “Fallen Watchers” who we call the Nordic Aryan Alien
“Fallen Watchers” today.

WATCHERS VS FALLEN WATCHERS

Click here: The Book of Enoch: The First Parable: Chapter XL

The original “Watchers” were good entities. They are
what we would call “Guardian Angels” today. They were
the creators of our three dimensional world and of THE
ORIGINAL HUMAN BEING ON EARTH, and took direct orders from
Jesus (Yashua) long before he incarnated in human flesh. A
group of these “Watchers” fell and became known as the
“Fallen Watchers” who came to follow an evil entity
known as Satan.

These evil gods were known as the “Shining Ones” and
are the same beings the New Age call “Light Beings”
today. The Elohim would appear as agents of god El and were
given the title of angels in the Old Testament. The word
angel is a more recent version of the original word, which
meant AGENT OF A GOD OR THE GODS.

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

Shanagirl

ixthis,

The Gnostic Christians of the early centuries AD, who
preserved the original teachings of Jesus, distinguished
between the TRUE Heavenly Father and the gods in the Hebrew
Bible. Jehovah (YHWH) was NOT the HEAVENLY FATHER revealed
by Jesus. While the Jewish Bible revealed a tribal god, the
God of Jesus was the universal Supreme Being of all
humanity.

The Hebrew god was a god of fear, while Jesus’ Heavenly
Father was a God of love. In fact, Jesus never referred to
the Heavenly Father as Jehovah aka Yahweh Ildabaoth the
Demiurge. In the Gospels of the New Testament Jesus NEVER referred to Jehovah.

In the New Testament Gospels Jesus refers to the Heavenly Father, God of Love

The Gnostic Gospel of Peter states that the
Hebrews were under the delusion that they knew the Heavenly
Father, but DID NOT. They were ignorant of him, and knew
only a false god, an impostor, whose true nature was unknown
to them.

The Gnostics exposed Jehovah aka Yahweh Ildabaoth the

Demiurge and the creator god Yaldabaoth the Demiurge as the
creative power of our current earths re-creation from the
chaotic mess it had been left in after the last global
cataclysm. One of the Gnostic teachers told how the unknown
Father made the angels, archangels, powers and dominions.
The world we currently live in and everything in it, was
REMADE by seven particular angels. These angels he described
as rebellious feeble artisans. (See the list below)

In the Gnostic Aprocraphon Book of John

Click here: The Secret Book of John (Apocryphon of John) Jesus speaks with the apostle John about the Supreme Being in the beginning and how all creation eminatef from his forethought, and how Yaldabaoth first came into existance along with the chaos that was brought about and the . I believe this false god is the god of the three major religious groups in chaotic struggle today on earth causing the evils and bloodshed presently. This Jehovah Yahweh god has brought this to humanity today just like he did in the Old Testament sufferings of the Hebrew worshippers. Islam, Judaism and Christianity are all vicitms of this chaotic bloodthirsty god of jealousy and war. If that is not how big a demon is than what is?