Posts by Shanagirl

2

The cult of the Jehovah Witness - Feel free to add your own interpretation

by exjehovah in

jw
friends

this has been on my mind all day.

i am grateful for a place like this to vent.

for anyone that is wondering why some of us are so disgusted and feel nothing but contempt for the watchtower organization aka jehovah witnesses, i want you to think about it from an outside point of view.. there are a few things that the jw organization does that is not only makes it a cult, but i want to at least touch on a few big ones.. it suppress free thought.

Shanagirl

In their indoctrination process they set you up to expect to lose your non believing family members because it's in the Bible. They are in Satan's world.

Shana

48

What are the worst pictures in My Book of Bible Stories?

by cedars in

a few comments from muddy waters and mummatron on another thread peaked my curiosity and led me to revisit some of the illustrations in the my book of bible stories.

i don't appear to have my old copy from when i was a child (thankfully), so i checked out the images over on watchtower.org where the entire book can be read online.

the images below are taken from what is displayed on that website, although it wouldn't surprise me if there are equally awful images that haven't been used.. so which of the images below are the most grotesque and inappropriate for children?

Shanagirl

Missing Link, How sick is that!!! When my kids asked me questions like that I would try to divert their attention to an excuse I made up in my own mind to justify that picture. I would tell them Jehovah knew Abraham would know that this was only a symbolic situation to let Abraham know that Jehovah was goint to do that same thing when he sent his son Jesus down to be sacrificed and Isaac and Jacob knew this.

Shana

7

YHWH Commanding To Kill Other Tribes' Children Morally = Molech Child Sacrifice?

by InterestedOne in

for those who feel yhwh is good, is his commanding his chosen people to kill the children of other tribes morally equal to or very close to morally equal to (i.e.

just as bad as) molech commanding his people to kill their children?

yes or no?

Shanagirl

Yahweh, Jehovah loves bloody murder. Even today, the religions who worship him still killing for the name of this false tribal god. Even the JW's love to reflect the blood thirst this god seems to have in their teaching literature and in the way they like to spiritually murder disfellowshipped ones. This god just wants to kill souls.

Shana

17

Am only now discovering/reading the Apocrypha

by Muddy Waters in

i was never a born-in jw, got baptized when i was 20 after being raised and belonging to a denomination of a protestant church.

so i never even knew that there was a "catholic" bible or extra bible books (the authenticity of their belonging in the canon or not is a debatable issue, and one i certainly have no answers about it!).

i knew through my study with jws that there were some "extra" books written, but since i believed everything the wt said hook, line, and sinker, i just went along with their explanation that they were not part of the bible canon.

Shanagirl

Muddy Waters,

I'm so glad to find a duscussion on these writings. I am very comfortable with integrating their explanations in my own continueing research. I do find a lot of it not only comforting to know, but all logical to accept as fact with many of the texts. MY core beliefs stem from ealy age being taught in Catholic Chruch and schools. As a teenager I had issues with some of the early Catholic Church teachings, always wanted to understand the Bible and so began studying with JW woman. Was baptized within 8 months . Met my husband, we fell in love during that time, married and had 4 children. Life experience in the WT world proved to be more than stressful over the 25 years we were in the cult. Faded quickly and after being one of those families that were hurt by WT mistreatment of Sexual Abuse accusers. A lot of pain and disillusions and serious bullying from the elders towards our family, and disfellowshipping me and my husband, proved to be too much. I came out with PTSD and my therapist told me I had a normal reaction to an abnormal event enabled by this spiritually abusive authorataian religion. It was very freeing to leave, and reinvent myself and felt glad our family was able to get out together. My husband and I tried to visit another bible based church, but it just brought up to many negative feelings in our hearts that were left over from WT abuse. So now we're comfortable not belonging to any church community. Just recently I began reading the Gnostic Books of Apocrypha. I spent a lot of time looking up many terms in dictionery, words I didn't quite understand. But these writings seem to answer many questions I had as a JW, and I find them very enlightening and comforting. Upon reading I've learned so far that there is the Great ineffable Unnameable, Pure, True, Good God the TRue God, who is the True Great Invisible Light and Supreme Father, the All. Residing alone in the fullness of the Pleroma the highest of the heavenly Aeons. This Spirt of immeasurable Light looked in the spring of life and by the power of his thought he brought forth an emanation of his light and power was like his, the feminine aspect of himself. Being Androngenous, his feminine courterpart the forethought of all and the perfect Aeon, she was known as Barbelo. She emminated the first thought, his image, she became the womb of everything. For it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother Father , to the first man, the Holy Spirt, the thrice male, the thrice powerful, the thrice named Powerful , thrice androngenous one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones and the first to come forth of the Father of Light.

And From the pure light that emanated from her and surrounding The Father, a spark ignited from him and she conceived another pure light – the "Only-Begotten Child" of His, or the divine Autogenes as the text called him. The divine Autogenes was the aeon Christ - the "Anointed One". Like his father and mother, Autogenes (Christ) was pure and holy. Everything the Son (Autogenes/Christ) have done, he work for the glories of his Father (Spirit) and Mother (Barbelo). Here are the Gnostic holy Trinity – Father, Mother and Son, like the Orthodox concept of the Trinity – Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the three perfect aeons.

From the Spirit and the Christ, they produced four helpers for Autogenes (Christ), known as the Luminaries or the Light Aeons. Under each light-aeon, there were three aeons, making a total of twelve aeons.

The light-aeon Armozel (or Harmozel) was the first angel, and with him, was three aeons – grace, truth and form.
The second light-aeon was Oriel (or Oroiael; possibly the archangel Uriel), with three other aeons – conception, perception and memory.
The third light was Daveithai, who was in company of understanding, love and idea.
The fourth light aeon was Eleleth, and with him – perfection, peace and wisdom (Sophia).
All four light aeons and twelve aeons served Autogenes (Christ). Christ works on the Spirit's will, while the Spirit works through Christ. Four other beings dwelled with four Luminaries. Pigera-Adamas or Adamas, the perfect human being (Cosmic Man), lived with Armozel. Seth, the son of Adamas, dwelled with Oriel. The Posterity of Seth, or the souls of holy people, lived with Daveithai. Finally, the last aeon known as the Souls, those who are not acquainted with the truth or gnosis until later, dwelled with Eleleth.
It is at this point that the text shifted its focus away from the Triad, to the lowest and the youngest of the twelve aeons – Sophia (the aeon of Wisdom).

MW I really think these stories are facinating. This small piece of writing is from the Apocryphon of John, as told be John the son fo Zebeddee whe Jesus appeared to him after his resurrection, he told John about all of the differnt abodes of he heavenly Pleroma, goes on to explain how the evil creator god is emminated in lower heavely aeons, uses the light and power from the aeon Sofia to create his own creations alone in universe of his created matter in shadow. In the shadow of his world he ignorantly believes he's the only one and creates myiads of angels and archons, who are defective as he is. He creates heavens and thrones for these angels and archons, proclaims to be the only god, there is no other, he will not share his worship because he is a jealous god. His name is given by his Mother Sofia and she calls him Yaltobaoth, and proceeds to hide him in the shadow of dark matter. So he is unable to emminate light because the shadow has dimmed the light he got from his mother.

Sophia and the Demiurge

Most Gnostics see Sophia or "Wisdom" as the most important aeon, after the Autogenes (Christ). Sophia was important, because she set in motion the creation of the material world.

Sophia was a Greek name for wisdom. Another name frequently associated with Sophia, was Pistis or "Faith". Sometimes Pistis was seen as a separate being, where she was seen as the mother of Sophia, but often Pistis was just another name for Sophia. Frequently, various texts used the two name together, as Pistis Sophia, as in the The Hypostasis of the Archons.

Sophia as the mother, should not be confused with Barbelo, the perfect mother. Whereas Barbelo was known as "Forethought", Sophia was equated "Afterthought". Here we see the text is influenced with these names (Forethought/Afterthought),

Sophia, tried to emulate the invisible Spirit (Father) in producing Barbelo, by created an image of herself. Meaning that she wanted to produce an offspring, without either consort or the approval of her Father (Spirit). As an aeon, she did have the power to do so, but she wasn't perfect like the great Spirit, or like the other two perfect aeons, Barbelo and the Autogenes.

She was horrified when she spawned an ugly, imperfect creature – a lion-faced serpent with eyes of fire, whom she called Yaldabaoth.

Sophia cast her offspring out of pleroma, and hid her child within a thick cloud from the other aeons, because of her embarrassment and shame.

Yaldabaoth was the first of the archon ("ruler") and he stole his mother's power, so that she wasn't able to escape from the cloud. Despite gaining Sophia's aeonic power, he was weak, but he was ambitious and power hungry.

Since the archons, including Yaldabaoth, were androgynous beings, Yaldabaoth fathered twelve archons, giving each a bit of his power. They were named Athoth, Harmas, Kalila-Oumbri, Yabel, Adonaiou (or Sabaoth), Cain, Abel, Abrisene, Yobel, Armoupieel, Melceir-Adonein and Belias. Seven archons would rule seven heavens and fivein the abyss, which Yaldabaoth and the archons created. Each archon would rule a heaven (or the abyss), and created 365 angels to help them.

According to The Origin of the World, there is an interesting account about his children. Yaldabaoth created a realm, called matter. And from this matter, Yaldabaoth created seven androgynous offspring, like himself, to rule seven realms or heavens of chaos. Each offspring have masculine and feminine names.

His first son opened his eye for the first time, he said "Eee!", so Yaldabaoth called his son Eee-a-o, which is ‘Yao’. The second opened his eyes and said "Eh!", so his father called him ‘Eloai’, while the third said "Asss!" so he was called ‘Astaphaios’.

Sambathas	Pronoia (Forethought)
Yao	Lordship
Sabaoth	Deity
Adonaios	Kingship
Elaios	Jealousy
Oraios	Wealth
Astaphaios	Sophia (Wisdom)

In his arrogance, Yaldabaoth boasted to the other archons that:

"I am God and there is no other God beside me!" – The Apocryphon of John (II 11:20)

Yaldabaoth was weak and ignorant, because he didn't realise that were any power greater than him. He thought he was the First. Yaldabaoth had sinned for saying these words, which was why he was called Samael – "the blind god". He has another name – Saklas, a name usually assigned to Satan.

According to The Hypostasis of the Archons and On the Origin of the World, it was Sophia, who rebuked him and gave him this name, Samael.

"You are mistaken, Samael" – The Hypostasis of the Archons (II 87:2)

It was at this point that the voice of the invisible Spirit was heard, rebuking Yaldabaoth and the archons. They trembled in fear, and saw reflected on the water, the image of God (Spirit), in human form.

According to The Hypostasis of the Archons, after this boast, he challenged the voice:

"If any other thing exists before me, let it be shown forth to me!" – The Hypostasis of the Archons (II 94:25)

So Sophia stretch forth her finger and brought limitless light into matter and the region of chaos. The chief archon trembled in fear.

When Yaldabaoth and the other archons heard the voice. They sought this voice and traced the voice to the abyss, where the chief archon saw the reflection of his mother in the water. They want take hold of the image but could not. They were ignorant and weak, because they didn't understand that the image was reflected from above.

"I am a jealous God, and there is no other God beside me."
But by announcing this he indicated to the angels who attended him that there exists another God. For if there were no other one, of whom would he be jealous? – The Apocryphon of John (II 13:9-12)

If there are no other gods then why would he be jealous?

It was at this point that Sophia realised what she have done, and repented. She prayed to her Father for her deliverance, and the restoration of the power that her son (Yaldabaoth) had stolen from her. Her light was diminishing, since the theft of her power. She was moving about, back and forth.

It was at this point that the voice of the invisible Spirit was heard, rebuking Yaldabaoth and the archons. They trembled in fear, and saw reflected on the water, the image of God (Spirit), in human form.

Shana

22

A Question About Genesis 5:1-3

by Voices in

jw
friends

i have a couple of questions about this scripture.. .

1)why wasn't cain mentioned as his first son?

i can't justify 'because he was evil' or some other irrelavent reason.

Shanagirl

Ugh, I'm having trouble getting this copied and pasted Here's the rest of the account from the post above.

Epinoia commanded Adam to awaken. Because of the spell of ignorance from Yaldabaoth, Adam thought that Epinoia was the one who gave him life, and he called her Eve. Yaldabaoth wanted Adam and Eve to remain ignorant. If the two first humans were forever ignorant, then they would forever worship him. Yaldabaoth told the two to do as they pleased, but to say away from the Tree of Knowledge.

Some Gnostics believe that it was Jesus himself that told them to eat from the tree; the Sethian Gnostics hold the serpent of Genesis as the deliverer of knowledge.

Once they ate from the Tree, Adam and Eve awakened from their ignorance. Now they realized that Yaldabaoth was a false God. The fruit from the tree had given them the gnosis to understand that their creator was not God. Yaldabaoth then placed a curse on the serpent, Adam and Eve.

Yaldabaoth was angry, and threw Adam out of the Garden. Yaldabaoth snatched Eve when he observed her faithfulness to Adam. Epinoia escaped from the mortal body as Yaldabaoth raped the physical body of Eve out of anger.

In the Apocryphon of John, this produced Cain and Abel. However, the Hypostasis of the Archons teaches that Cain was the only child conceived from this event.

Adam and Eve later had a child together that they named Seth, and it is his descendents that possess the gnosis that their ancestors did.

22

A Question About Genesis 5:1-3

by Voices in

jw
friends

i have a couple of questions about this scripture.. .

1)why wasn't cain mentioned as his first son?

i can't justify 'because he was evil' or some other irrelavent reason.

Shanagirl

22

A Question About Genesis 5:1-3

by Voices in

jw
friends

i have a couple of questions about this scripture.. .

1)why wasn't cain mentioned as his first son?

i can't justify 'because he was evil' or some other irrelavent reason.

Shanagirl

Hi Voices,

I've been interested in reading some of the writings of the ancient Gnostics and in these writings Adam and Eve were created by the creator archon god, Yaldabaoth, who created matter and chaos, and Adam and Eve. There is an interesting story about how he was angered at them for eating from the tree of knowledge and when they did they learned he was not the true God, but a false god. In anger he confined their soul to a mortal body created from matter. Eventually he raped Eve and she conceived Cain who killed Abel who was fathered by Cain. She then had Seth. This Yaldabaoth fits the angry cruel god, Yahweh, Jehovah. Anyway, I like to think that these stories seem more plausable to me then the creation story in Genesis. Rather than typing the whole story, I've copied and pasted a simplified explanation of these ancient texts.

The Gnostic Jesus - Sethian Creation

Adam and Eve
The physical world has now come into existence. Yaldabaoth is also aware that he is not the only God, and he is not a truly powerful one.

Yaldabaoth now wants to create an image of God from the image that he had seen in the water. To help his quest, Yaldabaoth summoned all the angels and archons; together they created a being in the likeness of the first man. The purpose of this was to steal the Spirit of the Father.

To their dismay, their creation was lifeless and without a soul. Little did Yaldabaoth know, his mother (Sophia) was meeting with the Father and Barbelo in a desperate attempt to regain her power. To help Sophia, the Father and Barbelo tell Yaldabaoth to blow air (life) into his creation, and that will awaken it. Ignorant, Yaldabaoth did as he was told. This is how Adam's soul was created.

When Yaldabaoth saw that Adam was good, pure and free from evil, he cast Adam out of the pleroma and sent him to live on the lowest plane of existence: Earth. To help Adam, Barbelo decided to send a helper along with him; a spirit named Epinoia. Adam's body hid Epinoia. While in hiding, she gives Adam secret knowledge of his existence, and taught him how to ascend back to the pleroma.

Angry, the archons wanted to confine Adam. Out of punishment, Yaldabaoth created a physical body out of flesh to confine his soul. His body was mortal, and Yaldabaoth again cast him away, this time, sending Adam into the Garden of Eden. Yaldabaoth also bound Adam by sleep and forgetfulness.

While Adam was sleeping, Yaldabaoth attempted to bring Epinoia out of his body through his rib, but she managed to escape. Yaldabaoth then quickly created another mortal body from Epinoia's image, and captured Epinoia inside. Yaldabaoth then placed Epinoia next to Adam in the Garden.

Shana

48

What are the worst pictures in My Book of Bible Stories?

by cedars in

a few comments from muddy waters and mummatron on another thread peaked my curiosity and led me to revisit some of the illustrations in the my book of bible stories.

i don't appear to have my old copy from when i was a child (thankfully), so i checked out the images over on watchtower.org where the entire book can be read online.

the images below are taken from what is displayed on that website, although it wouldn't surprise me if there are equally awful images that haven't been used.. so which of the images below are the most grotesque and inappropriate for children?

Shanagirl

Oh yes, I will never forget the picture of the little girl and her puppy laying in the bottom of a dirt trench with her bicycle. How disgusting was that! Thinking back on all of the pictures WT uses in it's books I think it's nothing less than spiritual abuse of children as well as all of the members. They have a blood fetish too.

I don't have a picture to scan of that little girl with the dead puppy, but I clearly remember seeing this picture in the older children's bible study book. The Paradise Lost book.

Shana

45

Why didn't Jehovah ??

by Phizzy in

as jehovah said to the israelites "you are my witnesses" and was happy to let them get on with things without major interference by him, he must have broadly approved of what the nation was doing, until jesus came and changed things.. for hundreds of years before jesus the jw's (israelites) had decided that the name of god was too holy to pronounce.

had he been upset by this he would have sent a prophet to sort this out, but no, it continued as practice,for 200 years at least,and remained uncondemned by jesus.. if jehovah had really wanted his people to use his name, would not a prophet, at least would not his son, have said so ?.

Shanagirl

Jesus did not preach about the jehovah god of the jews. He was of his Father in the high heavens of th Pleroma. 'this unnamable eneffable light, and The Apocrypha of John describes the True heavenly father of the Christ, who emminated fro the spark of the heavenly Father

Shana

17

Am only now discovering/reading the Apocrypha

by Muddy Waters in

i was never a born-in jw, got baptized when i was 20 after being raised and belonging to a denomination of a protestant church.

so i never even knew that there was a "catholic" bible or extra bible books (the authenticity of their belonging in the canon or not is a debatable issue, and one i certainly have no answers about it!).

i knew through my study with jws that there were some "extra" books written, but since i believed everything the wt said hook, line, and sinker, i just went along with their explanation that they were not part of the bible canon.

Shanagirl

MW, I've been reading a lot of the Apocrypha, and find it very facinating. I especially recommend the Apocryphon of John. I don't think you can take these books literally like people do with the Bible but they are like extra pieces to the puzzle of the organized religions of Jewish, Christian and Islamic religions of the Abrahamic biblical writings. I think there's a lot to learn from them regarding awareness of cosmology and Gnositism in ancient writings. From what I've read so far, the Catholic Church fathers did everything to eliminate them from the Bible Canon. I also have enjoyed reading Origin of the World, as well as the Book of Enoch.

Shana

Click here: Nag Hammadi Library Alphabetical Index