Ok Psac, you've made a good point. I'll err on your side.
Knowsnothing
JoinedPosts by Knowsnothing
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21
The Trinity Doctrine, the Governing Body & Disfellowshipping
by 00DAD inpossibly you thought this might be about something else ... but since you're here, why not keep reading!
jws are taught certain "reasoning" skills for use in the field ministry.
in reality, these "skills" are really more like debating tactics or techniques, short scripts of verbal jiu-jitsu designed to throw the uninitiated off balance and attempt to force them into a position of mental submission.. when you consider the fact that, as jws, we got up early, had our coffee, thought about what we were going to say and how we were going to say it--sometimes practicing these scripts for years--it's no surprise that we could often walk away from a door "victorious" over the poor, unsuspecting householder that was still in their pajamas, probably only 1/2 way through their first cup o' joe and still wondering whether or not they should venture outside to get the morning paper!
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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Knowsnothing
The Quiet One, the overlapping generation only came about, not because of a "refinement" but because their time on the original generation had expired. Can't you see it for what it is? JW's are merely attempting to salvage their last credible doctrine, because without 1914, I don't think they have anything, at least as far as interpreting prophecy goes.
Once the overlapping generation is proven false, maybe they will focus on what they always have focused, mainly no trinity, hellfire, etc.
At 7 million, they are already a reasonable force to be reckoned with.
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Who designed cancer?
by snare&racket inone thing i regret, is not listening to the questions in my head whilst a jw.
one i didn't ask until years after leaving was....who designed disease?
of course the first thing to realise is the complexity of disease, the histology, pathology and aetiology.
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Knowsnothing
Twitch, I don't know if you're pulling my leg with that last question. I honestly would not like to know if any one has "experimented".
Anyways, the whole point of the banana illustration is to show that God "created it" to be that way, perfect for human consumption. That's already been disproven before. Bananas are sterile fruit, they cannot reproduce on their own. They are that way because they are a hybrid, bred specifically for human consumption.
In other words, a banana fits well into a human's hands because 1.) they were cultivated that way by humans and 2.) it is a coincidence that the banana is shaped that way.
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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Knowsnothing
The Quiet One, it's relevant because Revelation is a book of prophecies and they claim to have the answers. When the pivotal 1914 date is proven wrong, they have to yet again revise Revelations fullfilment. It's really absurd.
I honestly can't believe you are defending them. It really is about semantics with you. They said it would happen. It didn't happen. I don't see why you have to obfuscate the obvious. They are false prophets.
If a prophet says something of God is going to happen, and it doesn't happen, then they are false prophets. Can we agree with that basic definition?
If not, please define more clearly what a "prophet" is to you.
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Was the Bible written for two opposite audiences?
by Fernando init seems the bible can be interpreted using either a religious or a spiritual framework with opposite results.. i have been pondering if this was by design, to effect a separation between the sheep (wheat) and weeds (goats).. does this mean that the bible is effectively booby-trapped against spiritually blind (physical, natural, carnal, legalistic, moralistic, ethnocentric and gnostic) supremacist religionists who would get the wrong end of the stick and show themselves to be children of the "god of religion" and not children of the "god of abraham"?.
it would seem a religious framework results in blindness and (supremacist) behaviour common to the ruling religious watchtower hierarchy and clergy.
essentially "christless christianity".. it would seem that a spiritual framework results in the opposite - social justice, open mindedness, liberal and generous orientation, inclusivity .
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Knowsnothing
Fernando, why would God "booby trap" his word if he desires all to "come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
If the Bible can be "interpreted" many ways, than there is no way to know which one is the truth.
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Has This Place Helped You To Come Out Or Stay Out Of The Organization?
by minimus ineverytime i read a page of topics, i can't help but accept that the witness religion is such a fraud.. keep up the good work in exposing the watchtower society!.
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Knowsnothing
Only mentally. Which I see as a blessing and a curse.
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WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2
by AnnOMaly inout now.. yes, yes, yessssss!
on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.
"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.
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Knowsnothing
(marked)
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179
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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Knowsnothing
The Quiet One, should I be expected to believe that the 7 trumpet blasts of Revelation are International Assemblies denouncing Christianity?
If this interpretation be proven false, would they qualify as false prophets? Why should I listen to their interpretation to begin with, if it's only an interpretation?
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The Trinity Doctrine, the Governing Body & Disfellowshipping
by 00DAD inpossibly you thought this might be about something else ... but since you're here, why not keep reading!
jws are taught certain "reasoning" skills for use in the field ministry.
in reality, these "skills" are really more like debating tactics or techniques, short scripts of verbal jiu-jitsu designed to throw the uninitiated off balance and attempt to force them into a position of mental submission.. when you consider the fact that, as jws, we got up early, had our coffee, thought about what we were going to say and how we were going to say it--sometimes practicing these scripts for years--it's no surprise that we could often walk away from a door "victorious" over the poor, unsuspecting householder that was still in their pajamas, probably only 1/2 way through their first cup o' joe and still wondering whether or not they should venture outside to get the morning paper!
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Knowsnothing
Psac, the Bible says:
R EMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES .
You say:
Nowhere else does Paul say to remove ANYONE from the congrgation.
Ok, but getting back to whether Biblical shunning and WT shunning are any different.
You say:
This is hardly a disfellowshiped followed by shunning for a disagreement about human doctrine, soemthing that Paul would NOT have advocated or agreed on.
Bible says:
2 John 1:10,11 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
This is a theological difference. John says, "Don't give him any greeting."
No one could "disagree" with church authority in those times and JW's are no different.
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Who designed cancer?
by snare&racket inone thing i regret, is not listening to the questions in my head whilst a jw.
one i didn't ask until years after leaving was....who designed disease?
of course the first thing to realise is the complexity of disease, the histology, pathology and aetiology.
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Knowsnothing
Or who designed the ecosystem to renew itself (the food chain)?
Who designed sharp teeth to bite into flesh and crush bone?
Or who designed the universe to eventually suffer heat death?
The list goes on and on.
This bears repeating. Take a closer look at "design".