Knowsnothing

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Posts by Knowsnothing

• 
  27

  Universal Sovereignty Doctrine, re-examined.

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hey all.

  what do you guys think about the issue of universal sovereignty?

  that was one of the doctrines i thought i would never doubt in, but looking into it more, there are a lot of holes in it.

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  Knowsnothing

  Vanyel, in your opinion, has God allowed humans to prove their worth as rulers?
• 
  45

  Introduction Bio

  by JakeM2012 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone, i would like to introduce myself and tell my story.

  from the standpoint of being one of jehovahs witnesses, my whole family is deeply involved as i was the 5th generation of witness and any children that my brothers or sister have will be the sixth generation.

  as some of my brothers and sisters are grandparents, i guess that makes their grandchildren a potential 7th generation.

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  Knowsnothing

  It was a long read, but certainly worth it. I recommend you allow JWfacts post it on his website to help others, if you aren't currently worried about your identity. These bio threads tend to get lost in the endless sand of new threads, and having it on a "fixed" site would help a bunch.
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  27

  Universal Sovereignty Doctrine, re-examined.

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hey all.

  what do you guys think about the issue of universal sovereignty?

  that was one of the doctrines i thought i would never doubt in, but looking into it more, there are a lot of holes in it.

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  Knowsnothing

  Imperfection (with ensuing disease and death) - Maybe, maybe not. For example, if you had a good job with benefits and then quit, you really couldn't blame your former company for your current lack of benefits. From your former company's point of view, you've now taken responsibility for that.

  Point taken. Good illustration.

  I know not everybody on this board believes in God or the God of the Bible or even the same things about that God. But in order to have a discussion about this issue, you would have to assume a few things about God. For example, he would have to exist, otherwise the issue would be moot.

  It's ok. I'm willing to work under certain assumptions.

  An account to look into is the Tower of Babel. God interferes with humanity's progress. From the other Discussion Board:

  Genesis 11:5-7 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

  Again, more interference. Jehovah wasn't satisfied with humans doing their thing, trying to answer the question posed in Eden. They seemed to be prospering, but down he swoops and destroys their progress.
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  27

  Universal Sovereignty Doctrine, re-examined.

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hey all.

  what do you guys think about the issue of universal sovereignty?

  that was one of the doctrines i thought i would never doubt in, but looking into it more, there are a lot of holes in it.

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  2. 
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  Knowsnothing

  Black Sheep, I'm merely getting people's takes on this particular doctrine. Even if you took the JW interpretation to be true, there are problems with it, is all I'm saying.
• 
  16

  My wife is going to her assembly today.

  by I quit! in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just wondering if anyone knows if there will be any earth shattering information at it or will it just be a rehash of the same old nonsense..

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  Knowsnothing

  Snore fest. Jgnat's observations are spot on. It's the same crap of every year; preach more, pioneer more, go along with everything the elders say or Jehovah will be sad and retire his spirit, etc.

  Those damn baptism questions (dedication to an organization).... why didn't I ever notice?

  They had this poor old Bethelite 80-something-year old pray that the aging Governing Body be given blessings by Jehovah to continue doing their arduous work.
• 
  27

  Universal Sovereignty Doctrine, re-examined.

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hey all.

  what do you guys think about the issue of universal sovereignty?

  that was one of the doctrines i thought i would never doubt in, but looking into it more, there are a lot of holes in it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Knowsnothing

  Hey all. What do you guys think about the issue of Universal Sovereignty? That was one of the doctrines I thought I would never doubt in, but looking into it more, there are a lot of holes in it. I'll post an excerpt from another discussion board I participate in, and would like your opinion on what you currently think about this doctrine, for arguments sake (even if you don't believe in it now, as I do)

  Essentially, the argument boils down to humans being given the chance to "prove" their rule over God's. The problem is there was sabotage for human rule.

  ----------------------------------------------------------

  Is God's touching stone test really fair?

  Genesis 3:17-19

  
  

  17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

  
  

  “Cursed is the ground because of you;
  through painful toil you will eat food from it
  all the days of your life.
  18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
  and you will eat the plants of the field.
  19 By the sweat of your brow
  you will eat your food
  until you return to the ground,
  since from it you were taken;
  for dust you are
  and to dust you will return.”

  
  
  

  According to JW doctrine, part of the reason for suffering is that God had to allow humanity to rule without God, and show that such rule would end in disaster.

  
  

  Ok.

  
  

  What I don't understand is that God wasn't merely satisfied with seeing humanity fail on its own. God had to additionally curse the ground to prove his point. Does anyone find that a bit.... unfair? The odds are stacked against human rule.

  
  

  1.) imperfection/sin

  
  

  2.) death

  
  

  3.) disease

  
  

  4.) famine

  
  

  5.) God cursing the ground, making the ground more unproductive I'm assuming

  
  

  6.) Satan's influence

  7.) Natural disasters

  8.) Time and unforseen occurence

  
  

  9.) Predation

  
  
  

  Honestly, can God truly use this as the standard to show that humanity doesn't deserve to rule on its own?

  ------------------------------------------------------------------

  Also, the illustration of the teacher allowing the student to answer the question is important to the discussion, so I will link the Bible Teach section dealing with this.

  Why does God allow suffering?
• 
  80

  What apostates fail to recognize is...

  by nananana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you can cut & paste all the excerpts from articles you want...you can leak all the boe letters, you can pretend to be witnesses and come to the conventions and meetings...but.

  no other organization can begin to rival the success and magnitude of the prophecy found in mt 24:14. so apostates....don't waste your time spending countless hours digging up articles and reading books to convince yourself to turn away from jh's organization.

  no matter what "evidence" you find you cannot ignore the obvious fulfillment of matthew 24:14.. .

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  Knowsnothing

  So, basically, you are in effect saying that we should disown our thinking abilities because you feel a certain prophecy has been fulfilled?

  If this is what your organization teaches you, you can keep it.
• 
  114

  What exactly is a relasionship with God?

  by tootired2care in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  growing up and jw and being around them all my life i constantly heard the expression "a relasionship with god".

  this always confused me, because how do you have a relasionship with someone that doesn't talk back to you after praying?

  this was always rationalized as god talks back to you when you read the bible.

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  Knowsnothing

  I'll be honest, Jesus feels a lot more approachable than Jehovah.
• 
  106

  One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah in the old testament and jesus in the new testament are one and the same.. .

  3. jehovah is salvation.

  5. jehovah wants only himself to be worshipped.

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  Knowsnothing

  Trinitarian debates are useless. They are equivalent to comparing your favorite super hero powers.

  Superman can fly!
  Well, Spiderman can shoot web!
• 
  9

  1954 Fred Franz court statement:"God does not deal in Temples made with hands."

  by kepler in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  writing on a topic and writing an essay: are they the same thing?

  i suspect that ranging too wide on a topic is an error to avoid in this medium.. earlier, while examining issues drawing from genesis, hebrews and court testimony of frederick franz in scotland in 1954, i came across a statement that only very slowly sank in.

  as background on the jehovah's witnesses for the walsh petition case for exemption from government service, it was stated in the strachan vs. walsh testimony that the line of witnesses was unbroken from the time of abel.

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  Knowsnothing

  I just ask a question. Do you still believe the bible still makes sense?

  It is the bible that makes this statement.