One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It

Perry

Jehovah in the Old Testament and Jesus in the New Testament are one and the same.

1. Jehovah is the only saviour

OT - Isaiah 43:11 ~ I, even I, am the LORD [Jehovah]; and beside me there is no saviour.

Jesus is the Savior

NT - 2 Peter 3:18 ~ But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory ... for ever.
NT - 1 John 4:14 ~ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

2. Jehovah is the only God and Saviour

OT - Isaiah 45:21 ~ there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Jesus is both God and Saviour

NT - 1 Timothy 2:3 -5 ~ For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour ... the man Christ Jesus.
NT - 2 Timothy 1:10 ~ But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ

3. Jehovah is Salvation

OT - Isaiah 12:2 ~ Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is ... my salvation.

Jesus is Salvation

NT - Acts 4:10 -12 ~ by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified ... Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
NT - John 4:42 ~ And said unto the woman, ... this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

4. Jehovah's Glory is Exclusive

OT - Isaiah 42:8 ~ I am [Jehovah]: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Jesus is the Lord of Glory

NT - 1 Corinthians 2:8 ~ for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
NT - Hebrews 1:6 ~ And again, ... he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

5. Jehovah wants only himself to be worshipped

OT - Exodus 34:14 ~ For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Jesus is worshipped

NT - John 9: 38 ~ And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
NT - Acts 7:59 ~ And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. (Stephen prayed to Jesus)
NT - 1 Tim. 3: 16 - ~ And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh

Mystery Solved.

moshe

Band on the RUN says-

Reporting only one side is very Watchtowersque.

IMO, this Jehovah=Jesus in the OT/NT is classified a faith message, not factual reporting.

garyneal

Perry's back...

AllTimeJeff

Well, that's good to know....

tootired2care

Perry just to be fair if the mystery is solved, how do you explain the following points of logic?

1. Col 1:15 if Jesus is the Almighty how is it that he is also a creation? - Col 1:15

2. Who is the person standing next to Jesus in heaven here? - Acts 7:55

3. Who are the two beings here? - Proverbs Chapter 8

4. Why did Jesus not have insight to the knowledge that only the father had?

5. If Jesus is God Almighty why the need to act as mediator with himself? Hebrews chapter 8.

6. Why does he sit down at the righthand of God instead of right in the throne?

7. Why would Jesus pray to himself?

8. Who is he giving the kingdom back to here? 1Cor 15:24

9. Is it really a sacrifice if he never really died? You can't ressurect yourself if your really dead?

10. Why is Jesus subject to God if he is the Almighty? 1 Cor 11:3

just n from bethel

Perry you're boring.

This ad I see on the site looks actually interesting about Jesus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fACEWtB6gU&feature=player_embedded

tec

Peace to you, Perry.

This is my understanding.

All authority was granted to the Son by the Father - and that includes all titles. They are the same in spirit, but not the same being.

From a practical perspective, it matters little... see the Son, see the Father, because they are one in spirit, and the son does all that the father desires and teaches him to do. Follow the Son, follow the Father. Faith in the Son, faith in the Father. Whether you believe they are the same or not, you must still look to the Son to know God.

Making them the same being seems, to me, to bypass Christ in a sense, so that he is not as much of a mediator. Leaving room for other mediators to come into the picture - GB's, popes, priests, cults - all those saying to come to them to know God. Placing themselves in the seat of Christ.

This is the type of debate that is never solved through scripture though. This is one for the Spirit to lead us. Perhaps neither God nor Christ care so much as long as we are following the 'practical applications', and practicing love.

Peace,

tammy

moshe

Perhaps neither God nor Christ care so much

If they cared, they would have given directions that weren't confusing- or maybe, it's--

moshe

One day you think you have Christianity all figured out- it's simple- faith baby, faith!! -Life is Grrreat--Blessings from God will be everywhere after you take that step of faith--

and then Ka-Pow!! Time to start over, folks.

Perry

TEC,

Scripture is clear about them being the same essence, and not just one in purpose, attitude (spirit) etc.

I want to address tootiredtocare: Welcome!

1. Col 1:15 if Jesus is the Almighty how is it that he is also a creation? - Col 1:15

Because Jesus is in posession of BOTH the esssence of God AND the esence of Man. In Mt. 22: 45 Jesus stumps the Pharasees with a similar question as yours: "If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?" And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions."

2. Who is the person standing next to Jesus in heaven here? - Acts 7:55

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Can the creator of the universe not place his essence or basic substance in two places or personages at the same time as Jesus indicated in Mt. 22: 45 above ? If no, then he wouldn't be unlimited or omnipitent. In other words, the lack of exact understanding on our part does not constitute an impossibility on God's part.

3. Who are the two beings here? - Proverbs Chapter 8

A straightforward reading tells you:

Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

4Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

This is a lierary device known as personification. (of wisdom in this case)

4. Why did Jesus not have insight to the knowledge that only the father had?

Because as a man, certain things were unknown to him, just as they are to us. God apparently has three complimentary personalities, yet only one substance. The personality of the eternal Son and the essence (stuff), substance of God was incorporated into the man Jesus, descendant of David.

5. If Jesus is God Almighty why the need to act as mediator with himself? Hebrews chapter 8.

Can you point to the precise scripture that would lead you to such a conclusion?

6. Why does he sit down at the righthand of God instead of right in the throne?

Because God is not limited to geography in space/time. Also, Jesus is the Son - not the Father, designations that indicate order. The "righthand" vision fairly represents that order.

7. Why would Jesus pray to himself?

As a man he prayed to God the Father.

8. Who is he giving the kingdom back to here? 1Cor 15:24

The personage of the Father. He can still possess the substance of God (and thus literally be God) and do this.

9. Is it really a sacrifice if he never really died? You can't ressurect yourself if your really dead?

He really died. It is well attested to historically. And, yes you can - If you understand what death actually is from a biblical definition and not a materialistic / Watchtower definition. For the biblical definition of death see here.

10. Why is Jesus subject to God if he is the Almighty? 1 Cor 11:3

Why is my hand subject to my head? Both are "me" even though they have different names. Again, the absence of how the exact functionalities of God works on our part, does not constitute an impossibility on God's part.

People can be easily be subject to a sort of reverse anthropomorphism on this subject unless they really think it through.

One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It

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