Knowsnothing

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Posts by Knowsnothing

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  44

  I'm So Pissed I Can't Go To The Convention!

  by Philadelphia Ponos in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  seriously!

  i've been planning on going to this foreign langauge district convention for over a year and because some genius in new york planned it on july 4th weekend all the hotel prices have been jacked up making it impossible for me to attend.

  f**k!!!!!

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  Knowsnothing

  Stay at a motel. Not a hotel.
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  6

  Combating Destructive Mind Control – Part III

  by ABibleStudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  quote from: chapter 8, how to help, pg 132. if someone you know and love becomes a member of a destructive cult, you will probably find yourself facing one of the toughest situations of your life.

  in helping a person you love return to being himself, its easy to fall into mistakes that could make your job even harder.

  if i was a former jw, i would help another family member or friend who is a jw by doing the following:.

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  Knowsnothing

  1) Since most people grow significantly intellectually, emotionally, physically, and spiritually from birth to at least 25 years old, how do you discover the authentic personality of a born-in JW who has been exposed to JW indoctrination from birth?

  Give them time to "discover themselves"? Understand where they are at that moment, such as belief in God, etc.

  2) Are more family members JWs or non-JWs of the JW who you want to help? If most family members are JWs, how can unresolved family issues be resolved to help a JW break free of mind control?

  IMO, the problem arrises when you are living with JWs. It might not matter how many you have in your family, its the ones you are most in contact with or have strong socio-economic ties that are troublesome. The JW may have to face a life without the believing family, something some find inconceivable(myself).

  3) Steve Hassan believes that a family’s unconditional love is crucial for a successful intervention. Will you be able to find an ethical exit counselor to help you with an intervention of a born-in JW?

  I think these types of situations require someone sort of becoming an exit counselor. Not a professional one by any means, but let's face, a stranger counseling you? Coming into your personal life?

  4) If you are a born-in former JW, will you be able to afford to pay for your own therapy and for an intervention of a born-in JW family member or friend?

  Naw. Again, you must become the exit counselor.

  I like your thread, but the odds and obstacles at times seem insurmountable. If a person wants to "stay in", regardless of any explanation you can give them, they will.
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  2

  Combating Destructive Mind Control – Part II

  by ABibleStudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  continuation of combatting destructive mind control part i which describes what is destructive mind control and how some organizations control individuals through mind control.

  part ii presents steve hassans keys to combating mind control and part iii will be about how to use/adapt steve hassans theories to overcoming the challenges of helping born-in jws.. .

  before describing the keys to combating mind control, i would like to overcome an individuals natural tendency to believe that they could never be controlled, to increase their awareness to personality behaviors that they may have developed while under the influence of mind control, and how to protect themselves in the future.

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  Knowsnothing

  I can certainly attest to Information Control, at least as my personal experience. I was brought up reading mostly JW literature. While I did read alot of fiction as well, the majority of "facts" and important or interesting news came from the WT or Awake. It was the only frame of mind that existed to me, and if I ever posed a tough question, I was ultimately "led" to the answer in WT literature. Even if the answer seemed unsatisfactory, I would accept it and focus on the "greater good" the religion acheived. If I ever asked too much, I would again be directed to the benefits of being in the religion, and answering the question itself wasn't paramount.

  The emphasis and focus was always that this religion is true, no matter what. I still have trouble accepting this isn't the "truth" at times. And, currently being in sometimes reinforces this.

  I have, however, learned alot about loaded language and how that would trigger in me the cultic personality. Whenever I hear "organisation", "faithful and discreet slave", "governing body", I immediately wake-up from the hypnosis. I realise that no matter how much good they think they do, they have bound people to organisation, and that "organisation", is above individual conscience, objective reality, etc.

  In fact, I think South Park says it better.

  <div style="background-color:#000000;width:368px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:104412:" width="360" height="293" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" base="." flashVars=""></embed><p style="text-align:left;background-color:#FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><b><a href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s08e09-something-wall-mart-this-way-comes">Something Wall Mart This Way Comes</a></b><br/>Tags: <a style="display: block; position: relative; top: -1.33em; float: right; font-weight: bold; color: #ffcc00; text-decoration: none" href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/">SOUTH<br/>PARK</a><a href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/episodes/s08e09-something-wall-mart-this-way-comes">more...</a></p></div></div>.

  http://www.popmodal.com/video/518/WalMart-Invades-South-Park

  The organisation becomes an entity of it's own. I believe even Ray Franz mentions this in CoC.
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  10

  Combating Destructive Mind Control – Part I

  by ABibleStudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  for the past month i have been reading threads on the jwn that mentioned steve hassans books.

  last week while i was at the library, i checked out combatting cult mind control by steve hassan.

  i agree with all of what steve hassan wrote about destructive mind control (i may disagree with some of his conspiracy theories).

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  Knowsnothing

  I can certainly attest to Information Control, at least as my personal experience. I was brought up reading mostly JW literature. While I did read alot of fiction as well, the majority of "facts" and important or interesting news came from the WT or Awake. It was the only frame of mind that existed to me, and if I ever posed a tough question, I was ultimately "led" to the answer in WT literature. Even if the answer seemed unsatisfactory, I would accept it and focus on the "greater good" the religion acheived. If I ever asked too much, I would again be directed to the benefits of being in the religion, and answering the question itself wasn't paramount.

  The emphasis and focus was always that this religion is true, no matter what. I still have trouble accepting this isn't the "truth" at times. And, currently being in sometimes reinforces this.

  I have, however, learned alot about loaded language and how that would trigger in me the cultic personality. Whenever I hear "organisation", "faithful and discreet slave", "governing body", I immediately wake-up from the hypnosis. I realise that no matter how much good they think they do, they have bound people to organisation, and that "organisation", is above individual conscience, objective reality, etc.

  In fact, I think South Park says it better.

  <div style="background-color:#000000;width:368px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:104412:" width="360" height="293" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" base="." flashVars=""></embed><p style="text-align:left;background-color:#FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><b><a href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s08e09-something-wall-mart-this-way-comes">Something Wall Mart This Way Comes</a></b><br/>Tags: <a style="display: block; position: relative; top: -1.33em; float: right; font-weight: bold; color: #ffcc00; text-decoration: none" href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/">SOUTH<br/>PARK</a><a href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/episodes/s08e09-something-wall-mart-this-way-comes">more...</a></p></div></div>

  The organisation becomes an entity of it's own. I believe even Ray Franz mentions this in CoC.

  If you don't mind, I'll repost this in part II for benefit of all.
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  4

  Do Christians hold similar intepretations of Daniel's prophecies?

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just curious on what you guys think?

  i still think the statue and beast prophecy describes quite well rome(iron) and the current fragmented political system around the world(clay mixed with iron).

  certainly, the particulars about the north and the south i don't care for because they are really open to interpretation.

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  Knowsnothing

  Just curious on what you guys think? I still think the statue and beast prophecy describes quite well Rome(iron) and the current fragmented political system around the world(clay mixed with iron).

  Certainly, the particulars about the North and the South I don't care for because they are really open to interpretation. But, I think the above mentioned is spot on.

  Also, what are atheists' takes on these prophecies? They seem pretty straightforward to me.
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  3

  Is it just the JW's who say treat yourself like poo

  by Star tiger in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sorry for the profanity, but i feel that this religion says totally deny yourself, and ignore any ideas or hopes you have for your life, how do we get out of this mentality, i believe that this religion started my ocd symptoms and has caused me a huge amount of of personal discomfort.. .

  appreciate your comments,.

  star tiger.

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  Knowsnothing

  Here comes a long post.... Hope you enjoy it. Taken from here.

  Anxiety: Challenge by another name

  by James Lincoln Collier

  Between my sophomore and junior years at college, a chance came up for me to spend the summer vacation working on a ranch in Argentina. My roommate’s father was in the cattle business, and he wanted Ted to see something of it. Ted said he would go if he could take a friend, and he chose me.

  The idea of spending two months on the fabled Argentine Pampas was exciting. Then I began having second thoughts. I had never been very far from New England, and I had been homesick my first few weeks at college. What would it be like in a strange country? What about the language? And besides, I had promised to teach my younger brother to sail that summer. The more I thought about it, the more the prospect daunted me. I began waking up nights in a sweat.

  In the end I turned down the proposition. As soon as Ted asked somebody else to go, I began kicking myself. A couple of weeks later I went home to my old summer job, unpacking cartons at the local supermarket, feeling very low. I had turned down something I wanted to do because I was scared, and had ended up feeling depressed. I stayed that way for a long time. And it didn’t help when I went back to college in the fall to discover that Ted and his friend had had a terrific time.
  In the long run that unhappy summer taught me a valuable lesson out of which I developed a rule for myself: do what makes you anxious; don’t do what makes you depressed.

  I am not, of course, talking about severe states of anxiety or depression, which require medical attention. What I mean is that kind of anxiety we call stage fright, butterflies in the stomach, a case of nerves—the feelings we have at a job interview, when we’re giving a big party, when we have to make an important presentation at the office. And the kind of depression I am referring to is that downhearted feeling of the blues, when we don’t seem to be interested in anything, when we can’t get going and seem to have no energy.

  I was confronted by this sort of situation toward the end of my senior year. As graduation approached, I began to think about taking a crack at making my living as a writer. But one of my professors was urging me to apply to graduate school and aim at a teaching career.

  I wavered. The idea of trying to live by writing was scary--a lot more scary than spending a summer on the Pampas, I thought. Back and forth I went, making my decision, unmaking it. Suddenly, I realized that every time I gave up the idea of writing, that sinking feeling went through me; it gave me the blues.

  The thought of graduate school wasn’t what depressed me. It was giving up on what deep in my gut I really wanted to do. Right then I learned another lesson. To avoid that kind of depression meant, inevitably, having to endure a certain amount of worry and concern.

  The great Danish philosopher Sovren Kierkegaard believed that anxiety always arises when we confront the possibility of our own development. It seems to be a rule of life that you can’t advance without getting that old, familiar, jittery feeling.

  Even as children we discover this when we try to expand ourselves by, say, learning to ride a bike or going out for the school play. Later in life we get butterflies when we think about having that first child, or uprooting the family from the old hometown to find a better opportunity halfway across the country. Any time, it seems, that we set out aggressively to get something we want, we meet up with anxiety. And it’s going to be our traveling companion, at least part of the way, into any new venture.

  When I first began writing magazine articles, I was frequently required to interview big names--people like Richard Burton, Joan Rivers, sex authority William Masters, baseball-great Dizzy Dean. Before each interview I would get butterflies and my hands would shake.

  At the time, I was doing some writing about music. And one person I particularly admired was the great composer Duke Ellington. On stage and on television, he seemed the very model of the confident, sophisticated man of the world. Then I learned that Ellington still got stage fright. If the highly honored Duke Ellington, who had appeared on the bandstand some 10,000 times over 30 years, had anxiety attacks, who was I to think I could avoid them?

  I went on doing those frightening interviews, and one day, as I was getting onto a plane for Washington to interview columnist Joseph Alsop, I suddenly realized to my astonishment that I was looking forward to the meeting. What had happened to those butterflies?

  Well, in truth, they were still there, but there were fewer of them. I had benefited, I discovered, from a process psychologists call “extinction.” If you put an individual in an anxiety-provoking situation often enough, he will eventually learn that there isn’t anything to be worried about.

  Which brings us to a corollary to my basic rule: you’ll never eliminate anxiety by avoiding the things that caused it. I remember how my son Jeff was when I first began to teach him to swim at the lake cottage where we spent our summer vacations. He resisted, and when I got him into the water he sank and sputtered and wanted to quit. But I was insistent. And by summer’s end he was splashing around like a puppy. He had “extinguished” his anxiety the only way he could--by confronting it.

  The problem, of course, is that it is one thing to urge somebody else to take on those anxiety-producing challenges; it is quite another to get ourselves to do it.

  Some years ago I was offered a writing assignment that would require three months of travel through Europe. I had been abroad a couple of times on the usual “If it’s Tuesday this must be Belgium” trips, but I hardly could claim to know my way around the continent. Moreover, my knowledge of foreign languages was limited to a little college French.

  I hesitated. How would I, unable to speak the language, totally unfamiliar with local geography or transportation systems, set up interviews and do research? It seemed impossible and with considerable regret I sat down to write a letter begging off. Halfway through, a thought--which I subsequently made into another corollary to my basic rule--ran through my mind: you can’t learn if you don’t try. So I accepted the assignment.
  There were some bad moments. But by the time I had finished the trip I was an experienced traveler. And ever since, I have never hesitated to head for even the most exotic of places, without guides or even advanced bookings, confident that somehow I will manage.

  The point is that the new, the different, is almost by definition scary. But each time you try something, you learn, and as the learning piles up, the world opens to you.

  I’ve made parachute jumps, learned to ski at 40, flown up the Rhine in a balloon. And I know I’m going to go on doing such things. It’s not because I’m braver or more daring than others. I’m not. But I don’t let the butterflies stop me from doing what I want. Accept anxiety as another name for challenge and you can accomplish wonders.
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  4

  any suggestions for other sites/boards similar to this preferably more christian

  by jeckle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  don't get me wrong you athiest are all right , save a little baby eating and what not.

  but i like to read more refutting of everything jw and what not..

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  Knowsnothing

  Beliefnet: Discuss Jehovah's Witnesses

  Couple of Christian apologists on there to debate with. Sometimes even a JW apologist, although lately they are scarce.

  4witnesses.org/jehovah-s-witness/

  Not perse a debate site. Does give you some ground work if your trinitarian.

  http://www.bible.ca/jw-apostate-doctrine.htm

  Same as above.

  http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness

  You will find a couple of JW apologists there, some atheist bashers, and a couple of Christian apologists. Debate.

  http://www.towertotruth.net/

  Trinitarian. Some articles there really hit me. (I recommend this one.)
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  9

  So I just had my Circuit Assembly...

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  guess what guys?

  they are starting to fear apostasy!

  it was mentioned a couple of times.. one of the "bird-catcher traps" teaching in previous years, added 3 new "traps used by satan"..

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  Knowsnothing

  Yep Lost. I'm just glad I can finally catch their language. I finally understand what they are really saying.

  I think this assembly mentioned organisation more that it did Jehovah.

  Infreakingcredible.
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  97

  Everything In The Universe Was Created By Absolutely Nothing.

  by Philadelphia Ponos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is the purest example of an oxymoron.

  repeat this sentence over and over again and you will realize why it's impossible for some people to accept the big bang model.

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  Knowsnothing

  Agree with what Morbidzbaby said.

  You could further your discussion by saying, what triggered the Big Bang, how such a seemingly disorganised action led to such an organised universe, etc. etc.
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  9

  According to the WT the word GB is in the Bible!

  by TotallyADD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  before i left for good i was the po and went to km school for po's in 2009 at patterson.

  on the very first day class the instructor told us the word gb is biblicial.

  he told us to turn to (heb 13:17) nwt reference bible which said "be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you* and be submissive" using the asterisk next to you he referred to the footnote at the bottom of the page.

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  Knowsnothing

  Your not. Your observation makes it glaringly obvious that they have to claw at any verse they can to find support for their claims.

  The way the GB makes decisions doesn't even come close to the example at Acts. Not only the Apostles participated and openly discussed the subject, but the local elders did so as well, considering this was mostly a local phenomenon. It did serve for the whole christian congregation, but ultimately, how can you compare a close-door decision making policy, to what the Apostles and elders did at Acts?