a good development in my life is happening now.
i have the opportunity to stand up for myself, let myself be heard.
i still believe in the bible and i already know that matthew 24:45-47 is a big misapplication of scripture.. i spoke with my mom today and let her know i am currently researching certain topics such as the 144,000, and 607 bc (which appeared in the daily text today).
Hey Mad, thanks. Yeah, I was looking in the CD Rom and found them. I was also about the article that says that the anointed "shine like the bright of day" but only in preaching.
That's the article I'm really looking for.
Edited to add: Found it! July 15, 2010. "Holy Spirit reveals deep things of God."
I think I will be well armed now...
a good development in my life is happening now.
i have the opportunity to stand up for myself, let myself be heard.
i still believe in the bible and i already know that matthew 24:45-47 is a big misapplication of scripture.. i spoke with my mom today and let her know i am currently researching certain topics such as the 144,000, and 607 bc (which appeared in the daily text today).
Seriously. A good development in my life is happening now.
I have the opportunity to stand up for myself, let myself be heard. I still believe in the Bible and I already know that Matthew 24:45-47 is a big misapplication of scripture.
I spoke with my mom today and let her know I am currently researching certain topics such as the 144,000, and 607 BC (which appeared in the Daily Text today). She thought it is great I am taking an interest in studying the Bible again (haven't done so seriously for a while).
In the conversation somehow also came up the Faithful and Discreet Slave. That one is really easy to refute. She showed me the Study WT April 15, 2011 which has the article "Do we recognize the medium God uses to guide us?" (I am translating from Spanish, so sue me).
On page 4, under the subtitle "Let's recognize the medium God uses to guide us today", it says "He (Jesus) has delegated part of his authority in the faithful slave, the group of anointed christians of our days. And they name superintendents to take care of the congregation. (Matthew 24:45-47, Titus 1:5-9)."
It was so simple to refute. I simply pointed out right there and then that Jesus delegates his authority to all the anointed christians, for that is who the slave is, according to WT. So according to the first sentence, Jesus gives his authority not just to the GB, but to all anointed christians.
Once I am done establishing that point, I move on to the next one sentence, which is a clear contradiction of the previous sentence, albeit a subtle one. The sentence says they (the faithful slave) names superintendents!
Here is where I clear it up for her. Anointed brothers that are not part of the GB have no say in naming superintendents! So obviously, even though Jesus gives authority to the faithful slave, which again is composed of all the anointed christians,only the GB names superintendents!
I made it clear to her that the slave, as is being constantly described in the Watchtower as being all the anointed on Earth, doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The ones that make 1.) all the decisions, 2.) feed the domestics, 3.) have been "given all authority" are nothing more than the GB.
The other anointed don't contribute didly squat. So how do they fit the description at Matthew 24? They simply don't.
I know this subject has been brought up many times, but it's important to me because I was starting to make her reason! I explained in a cool and calm fashion, and she simply said take it up with one of the elders. Lol
So I also wanted to ask you, which Watchtower is the one that speaks of the anointed not having any special privileges or special insights?
Even if I don't completely get through, at least I can defend where I stand, and I don't have to parrot crap I don't believe in anymore.
jesus was the leader, the rabbi, the teacher and he chose his apostles.. they followed him, they listened, they obeyed.. but--did they have their say?.
did they ask stupid questions and get answers?.
did they have opinions that were voiced, heard and answered?.
Terry, I thought you didn't profess any faith...
Being a Christian seems appealing at times, but when it comes time to defend the faith, some simply back down.
are there any circumstances when the watchtower takes on moslems head on, or like western govts, do they retreat as cowards?.
i placed some literature with a captain in the egyption navy, from alexandria, the jw,s were invisible, if they were even there !!
!.
Yes.
the watchtower society describes the year 539 bc variously as being an "absolute date", a "pivotal date"; and certainly one on which the chronology of the entire "hebrews scriptures" depends upon.
(some jw apologists have even described that year as being a "drop dead" date).
however, this date of 539 bc didn't just fall out of the sky and mysteriously land on our lap:.
Knowsnothing: I have no idea what this "agenda" is that you mention, nor who is meant to be furthering it. You might enlighten us all, perhaps?
Who is furthering the agenda? Watchtower. What is the agenda? Perpetuate inconclusive biblical chronology/interpretation of prophesy to further cement themselves as the "truth" in the minds of believers.
How many people JW's doubt the "truth", but hang onto it because of things like these? It is not easy to refute that "Russell predicted 1914/End of Gentile Times", when all they do is manipulate and wind their way through real truth.
The task of unwinding all this crap just gives me a headache. I wish it were simpler.
it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.
" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.
the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .
"Every indication of contrivance, every manifestation of design, which existed in the watch, exists in the works of nature; with the difference, on the side of nature, of being greater or more, and that in a degree which exceeds all computation."
At this point, the 'argument by design' suddenly requires you to believe that everything in nature shows evidence of a designer!
Everything in nature does show evidence. The rock may not have been crafted directly, but what of the natural processes that gave it shape? What of the varied nature of elements, that all come together in harmony? That's why he ends his sentence "...in a degree which exceeds all computation."
If Earth, life, and the conditions allowing for these weren't designed, then we are simply extremely fortunate, and lack any true purpose other than to be born, procreate and die. I don't know about the after life, but that is not a satisfactory answer for me. Regardless of one's personal views, life really is too complex to have fortuitously come about, in a universe that really seems mostly inhospitable.
The argument from design is also dishonestly selective. If, as many theists would argue, the complexity of the universe is evidence of design and that this proves the existence of an even more complex Designer/Creator/God why is that entity’s complexity not evidence of an even more complex deity who, in turn, will also have to be the product of an even more powerful SuperGod? And on, and on, and on . . . Ridiculous, and the arguments given against this are weak at best.
Well, if you believe in the Bible, or at least the general idea most religions hold to, the buck eventually stops at the Highest Entity.
I think you use the fallacy of reductio ad absurdum. You try to reduce the arguement to an absurdity, when it is entirely plausible. Even if you don't subscribe to the God of the Bible, cannot creation be a valid theory? Looking at the evidence, it is.
I recently bought a Time magazine, the edition about 100 great recent scientific discoveries.
Astronomy has truly gained so much ground in these last few decades. The magazine mentioned that the space program endeavour is to look for other planets that may contain life. However, they must be in the "goldilock zone." How strange and fortunate that so far, only Earth meets this criteria.
i couldn't help but smirk when i saw this question on a job application.. all of this applies in some aspect or another to the watchtower... .
Wow! All of these describe WT world.
So much for modeling themselves after 1st century Christians.... Looks more like the WT is just another corporation.
can someone explain this scripture to me:.
and i have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also i must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
(john 10:16).
John 10:16 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
Let's examine the timeline. Jesus was still here, alive on Earth when he spoke these words. He says they (other sheep) will become one flock with the "sheep" he is currently talking to (Jews). He will be the "one shepherd" to this "one flock".
Ephesians 2:11-22 11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
v 14 says, "who has made the two groups one". It doesn't get much clearer than this.
Ephesians 4:4-6 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
One hope. For Christians. Perhaps the 144,000 can be interpreted another way?
2. The issue Satan raised was on earth, and every one abandoming earth, is not the way to settle the issue, in fact Jesus settled it in the flesh, and when Satan is released he will be tempting flesh for heaven is incorruptible in Jesus Kingdom 144000 immortals, and heaven is death free.
No one said everyone abandons Earth. But it seems to me that giving a select few immortality, when we are all sinful, doesn't sound fair.
Especially to those Christians that have to suffer every bit as much as supposed "anointed" have had to suffer.
Maybe the New Covenant is simply "off limits" to those that never got to participate i.e., Jews, people that never heard the Gospel, etc.? That would sure fill up a lot of the Earth, wouldn't it?
As for Hebrews 5:9, ...he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him...
Really? It says, "to all those obeying him". So Christians don't have to obey Christ while here on Earth to obtain their crown? First I heard of that. And it's the first time I hear of such a grand misapplication of scripture. Honestly.
And Romans 8:19-25 certainly does distinguish two groups, yet you have not one shred of evidence to indicate it is speak of two "Christian" groups. The "creation" may well be those that didn't participate of the "New Covenant". It fits quite well.
hellow everyone,.
could it be that the japanees nuclear disaster is fullfilling this bible verse: and a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters, because these had been made bitter.
(revelation 8:11).
Kosonen, hi.
Next in the prophecy, (Revelation 9:1-11) there is a locust plague, and after that a 200 million (2 myriads x myriads) army coming to kill a third of the worlds population (Revelation 9:13-21). There are reports coming that Chinas and Russia are angry with what NATO is doing in the middle east and this could trigger China to take over the Asia and Middle East while USA is going to default.
Allow me to address this part. A 200 million army fight won't happen. Why not? Funding an army this large is first issue. Second, is that we have advanced weapons and little to no need for actual armies.
After this the rest of mankind would welcome a global governance, the New World Order and this would result in hard times for christians for 3 and half years. Because they will pressure everyone to get the mark of the beast. Now I've seen not only RFID-chips but a patented idea to make a tattoo above the RFID-chip.
Naw. This is just too farfetched. I don't think I will even try to refute this one.
most jw.s really believe that they ( as we once did ) are promoting gods will, but what if they really are ?
is it possible that god is supporting them even though they (governing body ) lie, because most jw,s are ignorant of the lies told on their behalf, ?.
when i was a jw i got attacked by the demons bigtime, but not now, and i can only assume that they (demons ) are happy that i am no longer a jw and are now leaving me alone, cant think of any other reason, has god ever supported a group who were similarly found wanting ?.
Well, let's keep trying to reach out. I believe his ultimate motivation is fear. Fear that the "Truth" is real. That being a JW, being in the organisation=Jehovah's favor.
Pedal, you need to look beyond organisation. You're basically arguing that God is only as big as the supposed "organisation" he is using. What kind of an all-powerful God is that? He can't reach out to others? Others can't find or worship God without an "organisation"? That's almost a slap in the face to God, IMO.
If you can get past that, you can think logically and make a conclusion all on your own. We are only here to pave the way. But, ultimately you have to make a decision. Again, if you aren't fully mentally committed and never believe you will be(even if you go back), why would you go back out of fear?
