Posts by LoneWolf

1

Media coverage --- how much?

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

i've been doing the best i can to keep up, but my work schedule of 60 to 70 hours a week makes things rather impossible sometimes.

as of the beginning of this week i've pared it back some, although other things are crowding in.. at any rate, i need to get a rough overview of how much media coverage there has been on the pedophile situation.

i know that a few weeks ago someone started a thread on this, listing the names and cities of the newspapers that had run articles on it, but i think it (the thread) ended up petering out.

LoneWolf

I've been doing the best I can to keep up, but my work schedule of 60 to 70 hours a week makes things rather impossible sometimes. As of the beginning of this week I've pared it back some, although other things are crowding in.

At any rate, I need to get a rough overview of how much media coverage there has been on the pedophile situation. I know that a few weeks ago someone started a thread on this, listing the names and cities of the newspapers that had run articles on it, but I think it (the thread) ended up petering out. Toward the end it was approaching 30 names.

Has anyone been keeping track of these, or has any of the websites been listing them? I don't really need the actual names or articles right now, though I will probably be called upon to prove my statements.

Any help will be appreciated.

LoneWolf

16

Elders and Culpability Revisited

by dungbeetle in

jw
friends

elders and culpability revisited.

since the issue keeps coming up no matter what (watchtower ingrained in all jws the position elders had and how no one should question the elders.

on the other hand, we should all turn in errant publishers).. i would like to say first that i have said some harsh words on the subject, to amazing and to marvin shilmer and to jst2laws and hillary_step (i read the book "into thin air" and i know what that means now!!).

LoneWolf

Hi, Dungbeetle ---

You warm my heart. I thoroughly agree.

A couple of thoughts, though. You may remember a thread a short time back that was started by Logical, I think. It brought up the question as to whether we found ourselves deficient in the social skills department due to our experiences in the Organization. I think most of us came out lacking in some way, and come on this board unpolished. It's only by such interaction as you've mentioned above that we come to such knowledge and the realization of the changes that we could make to be more effective in the things we want to accomplish.

Many times such name calling as you describe is the result of that deficiency and it takes some time for them to grow beyond it. Sometimes it is a symptom of the real problem: This is all new, fearful, and threatening. They don't know what to expect and are overly touchy. The result is the big brave "don't-tread-on-me" front.

But at times such put-downs are necessary or even beneficial. When some abuse those who are undeserving, they need called down for it. Otherwise the abuse will only increase and more innocent ones will be hurt. An example of that would be D8TA and the way he was calling down Island Woman the other day. It was completely unnecessary and counterproductive, for his vituperation more than cancelled out any value that he is obviously capable of imparting. Apparently his character flaw is that he is convinced all he has to do to be a big man is to beat up on all the little girls.

Others would be like Quantum. He's an individual who again is capable of contributing. However, he is so stuck on himself that one needs to hold down the gag reflex just to read his posts. No one will pay any attention to him until he learns to tone down his self-centeredness. Belting him over the head with a paragraph or two will be doing him a favor in the long run.

onacruse ---

"...except on a person by person case." How can I judge anyone?

You are, of course, correct in the case of judging their heart condition and whether or not they are worthy of being treated humanely. However, I feel that Dungbeetle was referring to how much the person could be counted on. For instance, would you put as much confidence in the words of a known liar as you would in those of an individual who bends over backward to be honest? This is a type of judging that is not only proper, but utterly necessary.

LoneWolf

32

I COULDN'T DO IT!!!!

by Perfection Seeker in

i know i just posted a few hours ago- but need to vent.

my mom was at the district convention last weekend.

i had found this site shortly before she went.

LoneWolf

Hi, Perfection Seeker,

Yes, there's an awful lot of good advice that's been given here. I'd like to add a little that may make the job easier. I've been DFed for about 15 years now, and as I'm a fourth generation JW and am in my 60's, you can get a good idea of how deeply my family is into it.

What I have done is to give an extremely short answer to them when they come on to me about coming back into the Organization. It's kind of a one-size-fits-all solution that puts them on the spot. It goes like this:

Them: "Why don't you (get reinstated, attend meetings regularly, go to the assembly, go to the elders for help, etc, etc.)?"

Me: "I can't."

Them: "Why not?"

Me: "Because it would violate my conscience, and I want to keep it clean before Jehovah."

Now, there are two main eventualities. If they ignore your words and continually hound you anyway, put them on the defensive. Use something like this, in whole or part:

"Why are you trying to force me to violate my conscience? Anyone who would do such a thing certainly has no love for either me or Bible teaching." Have a couple of scriptures prepared to prove the value of a clear conscience.

Of course, they'll come back, "Well, you're conscience is not trained correctly."

Your answer: "That's your opinion. It's not mine. And in any event, it's immaterial. The Bible clearly points out that it is a sin to violate one's conscience, whether it's weak or not."

There will be those who will ridicule the very suggestion that you have a conscience. Be indignant. You have a right to be. "Well, if that is what you think of me, why are you here?"

Every time they try to get around that, take them right back to the beginning: "Why are you trying to force me to violate my conscience?" If it takes a hundred times, so what? Remember the word "inculcate"?

The other eventuality is interesting. Some of them will ask "How could it possibly violate your conscience?" Now is the time to tell them of some of the things you've heard. They have opened the door. Don't swamp them in one sitting, though.

When they come back with the claim that those things are apostate lies, answer forthrightly. "No, they aren't. Whoever told you that is the liar, and I can prove it." Be ready to.

There is are some wonderful advantages to handling things this way.

1. The guilt trip is minimized or eliminated altogether.

2. You have claimed the moral highground.

3. To do this properly, you will need to prepare thoroughly in order to be able to adequately express the things that you see wrong, and why it bothers your conscience. This in itself, whether you ever use it or not, will go far toward eliminating any guilt trips you may be experiencing.

Hope this helps.

LoneWolf

8

Mere Christianity

by Naeblis in

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friends

i'm reading this book right now just out of interest.

does anyone know of any counter argumetns eitehr as books or in essay format?

i think lewis is fairly reasonable on most points.

LoneWolf

The only thing that I've read in that book is a Reader's Digest condensed version of the chapter on pride. I felt it was right on. I'd like to read the rest, but so far haven't had the time.

If the man interests you as he did me, get the movie "Shadowlands" starring Anthony Hopkins. It is about part of his life and the things that affected him deeply.

His type of deep analytical thinking is something that is sorely lacking in religious circles. It is desperately needed.

LoneWolf

163

Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

by Francois in

jw
friends

there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

LoneWolf

Hillary ---

That is not to say that God does not exist, or that some universal plan is not a-foot, it does seem to indicate though, that God did not want us to find this out in a hurry...lol

Here you touch on a factor that I feel that nearly all of us have left out.

I read an article written by (as I recollect) an Egyptian moslem that argued very persuasively that the real problem with the faith was the stranglehold the religious leaders had on it, so much so that new research, etc., had no chance to be assimilated. They had convinced themselves that they already knew all that was necessary to know and that the ancient traditions were sufficient.

The end result is, of course, that the people that follow it live in conditions that are the same as hundreds or even thousands of years ago and those nations in its grasp stagnate. The very societies in which the religion exists become intellectual backwaters.

I suspect this is one of the reasons that Jesus opposed the traditions of his day. He realized that they were set in concrete and were unchangeable, thereby being the very first obstacle we would have to overcome in order to learn whatever things Jehovah does want us to know.

Closely related to this, I feel that the religious leaders take the wrong meaning out of such scriptures as Isa. 55:8, 9, and assume that it is either impossible or forbidden for mankind to think God's thoughts and for anyone to try would be presumptuous.

However, I don't think so. Rather, Jehovah is stressing to us that we need to elevate our level of thinking. He apparently wants us to know these things even while making allowance for our lack of perceptive abilities. One might compare the situation to one of us, as parents, desiring to teach our children the realities of life. Some things can be assimilated at a young age. Others cannot until later in life. At the same time, neither He, nor we, wish to talk down to the ones in our charge.

It's rather hard to elevate our thoughts when our religious leaders refuse to feed us anything but pap and teach us that all "independent thought" is a sin and punish us accordingly.

Remember Matthew 23:13? "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees,hypocrites! because you shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in." Perhaps the above is the mechanism by which they became guilty of his charges.

You add:

. . it is actually our greatest spiritual strength in that impels us to reach for the skies, and pushes forward the boundaries of our reason.

This attitude has been almost nonexistant is religion, thanks to tradition. Perhaps it is time for it to be utilized. I see no reason, scriptural or otherwise, that science alone should have a lock on such thinking.

LoneWolf

Edited by - LoneWolf on 6 July 2002 7:53:36

Edited by - LoneWolf on 6 July 2002 7:59:7

7

Response mailed August 1997 by a brother

by IslandWoman in

jw
friends

june 15, 1996. .

dear brothers,.

in the article "what 'instinctively wise' creatures can teach us", the last paragraph ends with the sentence: "and they [true christians] continue to learn from some 'instinctively wise' creatures.

LoneWolf

There is more going on here than meets the eye.

Twice now you have used the phrase " . . . to be used as an identifier." Could it be that you too are looking for this specific individual that is to be a "leader"?

Your posts are cryptic, as though to communicate messages to a certain individual or individuals, but hiding them in other messages.

For what it's worth, one of the reasons that I'm deeply interested in this line of thought is that using such tactics as codes or secret tests to determine the authenticity of someone, whether of the anointed class or as the next leader, or anything else, and expecting Jehovah to miraculously indicate his choice --- flies directly in the face of the scriptures. This is in three or four different ways too.

But perhaps this is where you are coming from too. When Jehovah doesn't answer in the manner they are hoping for, someone else could be chosen that should never be considered.

As I recollect, there is more than one place in the Bible where the "responsible ones" picked a leader, only to have Jehovah anoint another in his stead.

By the way, I've always loved the name Linda. When I was young, I always planned on giving one of my daughters that name. However, then I met a Linda, fell in love with her, and now we've been married for nearly 42 years.

LoneWolf

Edited by - LoneWolf on 24 June 2002 10:8:25

27

I would love to do this at a judicial hearing

by WildTurkey in

jw
friends

man this would be so funny to do to the elders, .

bring a cell phone and order a pizza when the elders starts talking.

stare off into space and blow spit bubbles.. .

LoneWolf

They were mad at me because I told them straight out that the whole process was a ridiculous charade.

LoneWolf

13

Abstain from Blood? Verb Missing Here!

by Englishman in

i've just spotted this on touchstone forum.

it's well worth reading:.

".....for anyone else that might want to comment, i will elaborate a little on the issue of grammar.

LoneWolf

Hi, Englishman ---

Would you have an address for that thread? I'm interested.

LoneWolf

9

In Alaska

by obiwan in

hey stacey or johnnie it's me loudog,post here if you see this.. wow it's a wide open world,use your.

own thoughts.

LoneWolf

Hah!! I'll bet that I know some of the people you know.

LoneWolf

45

How many Artists here? Which field of Art?

by invisible in

jw
friends

i know i asked this absolutely yonks back, then by the name of celtic, but with so many newcomers here i thought no harm but to ask once again.. how many artists do we have here or working in art related fields including film, music, theatre, environment, gardening, sculpture, graphic design, illustration, fine art, photograpy etc etc?.

what hobbies do you have?

how do you see your future artistic horizons opening up?

LoneWolf

I'm either drawing baths or I'm drawing flies.

Actually, I have a book in the works, and years ago was a fairly decent bassoon player. Ever try Bach's Fugue in G-minor? Sixteenth notes from here to the horizon. Thought my mouth would fall off. I was in a quartet that played it in contests etc.

LoneWolf