Computor screwed up and double posted. Sorry.
Edited by - LoneWolf on 24 November 2002 13:58:6
LoneWolf
JoinedPosts by LoneWolf
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70
Lust For Glory Alienating The Majority?
by Englishman inif i had ever been a victim of abuse, and the offence had been perpetrated by a member of the jw religion, then silent lambs would be the best thing ever to appear, both on tv and in person.. if i had a close friend or relative who had gone through the same trauma, then i would feel almost the same emotion.. now i do not know, obviously, what percentage of persons on this site have been victims of abuse by jw's, but my guess is that this percentage is relatively small.
so whilst most of us feel very empathetic to abuse victims, not that great a proportion of us have experienced it personally.. however, i do know that many of us have suffered trauma because of other forms of abuse by this organisation, including disfellowshipping which has caused many to be rejected by their loved ones.
whilst it is not possible to measure this form of abuse against that of child abuse, it is nonetheless a type of abuse that most of us are familiar with on a personal level, it's also a type of abuse that is still going on for many who post here.
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Lust For Glory Alienating The Majority?
by Englishman inif i had ever been a victim of abuse, and the offence had been perpetrated by a member of the jw religion, then silent lambs would be the best thing ever to appear, both on tv and in person.. if i had a close friend or relative who had gone through the same trauma, then i would feel almost the same emotion.. now i do not know, obviously, what percentage of persons on this site have been victims of abuse by jw's, but my guess is that this percentage is relatively small.
so whilst most of us feel very empathetic to abuse victims, not that great a proportion of us have experienced it personally.. however, i do know that many of us have suffered trauma because of other forms of abuse by this organisation, including disfellowshipping which has caused many to be rejected by their loved ones.
whilst it is not possible to measure this form of abuse against that of child abuse, it is nonetheless a type of abuse that most of us are familiar with on a personal level, it's also a type of abuse that is still going on for many who post here.
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LoneWolf
RevMalk --- Good lord, either you didn't read my post at all or your reading comprehension level registers right around the square root of a negative one. And what's this about an IQ of 180 something? Are you sure you didn't get the decimal in the wrong place?
To keep going on and on and on with this to the benefit of no-one.
I'm glad you agree. So take your medicine like a man, stop your whining and let's get on with the program.
LoneWolf
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Lust For Glory Alienating The Majority?
by Englishman inif i had ever been a victim of abuse, and the offence had been perpetrated by a member of the jw religion, then silent lambs would be the best thing ever to appear, both on tv and in person.. if i had a close friend or relative who had gone through the same trauma, then i would feel almost the same emotion.. now i do not know, obviously, what percentage of persons on this site have been victims of abuse by jw's, but my guess is that this percentage is relatively small.
so whilst most of us feel very empathetic to abuse victims, not that great a proportion of us have experienced it personally.. however, i do know that many of us have suffered trauma because of other forms of abuse by this organisation, including disfellowshipping which has caused many to be rejected by their loved ones.
whilst it is not possible to measure this form of abuse against that of child abuse, it is nonetheless a type of abuse that most of us are familiar with on a personal level, it's also a type of abuse that is still going on for many who post here.
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LoneWolf
Sorry, Folks, I'm with Englishman.
This is not the time for this subject to end, and it won 't as long as most of you have your heads stuck up your nether regions. Bill screwed up, big time. As I put it in another thread, this whiny generation seems to think that they can criticize anyone, anytime, about anything, with or without proof, and anyone who objects is out of place.
But should anyone point out their faults --- whew! Listen to the crying, wailing --- and the demanding to avoid all reality --- that ensues. I've had a bellyful of spoiled brats.
SunshineToo ---
Does that make Bill disqualified for his job? I don't think so. Does that make the Silent Lambs look bad? Possible. But remember that Peter denied Jesus 3 times in public, and that didn't make him less qualified for his job.
I think its a little early to say that he is disqualified, but he is certainly heading in that direction if he doesn't straighten up and fly right. And you're right about Peter messing up without being disqualified. However, you're apparently demanding forgiveness for Bill, et. al., when you are not willing to give that same forgiveness to others. That's a two way street, and if you aren't willing to give it, then don't expect any in return.
What Bill and many of his backers apparently cannot see is that while he has accomplished much, a great deal of it was built on the foundation that others have laid. The cornerstone of that foundation was laid by Ray Franz. Many, many others have contributed, and even if very few know of them or what they did, their cumulative effects have made his efforts possible.
If he or anyone else thinks that he has the authority, moral or otherwise, to demand that they back him regardless of their strength, knowledge of the subject, circumstances, or any other consideration, then he is a conceited ass and richly deserving of a good reaming. That is especially true if he (or they) jump to conclusions and cast aspersions on their motives for not doing so.
Look at it this way. Barbara Anderson brought in and indoctrinated over 50 people to the Organization. Why aren't you condemning her for this? Bill himself wrote last week in his "last" post that there were many things that he did while an elder that he is deeply ashamed of. Why should he be trusted in view of that?
Lets face it: we all have done things, usually out of ignorance, that we regret.
The one who screwed up here, was, is, and apparently will continue to be, Bill --- for opening his big yap against RF in the first place. When others point this out, quit whining about it and face the facts.
RevMalk ---
Bottom line is, the issue should be dead. The guy doesn't want to help, so be it, it's just not his bag to save innocent children, what can we do?
No, the issue should not be dead. Especially that is so when knotheads like you continue to slander other people's good name. Your asinine words "it's just not his bag to save innocent children" is a good case in point. Where do you come off assuming anything about what he feels about anything? I can think of about 5 different scenarios where he would not feel free to speak up now --- or even ever.
The time when this subject should die is whenever numbskulls like you quit your nonsense, and not before. If that takes 5 days, 50 months, or 500 years, that's tough. You need to get it through your thick skulls that you don't have that kind of intelligence. If it takes a sledgehammer to do it, so be it.
Nordic ---
I don't care what you think about Bill Bowen, SO SHUT UP!!!
Shut up and sit down, punk. Maybe your brains will work better when you're sitting on them.
waiting --- I'm a bit surprised at you. Youve been around long enough to know that sometimes the best friends a person can have are those who have the courage to look you square in the eye and tell you what you're full of and why. They will be the ones that care enough about you and what you are doing to want to see you succeed. The bootlickers and yes-men can be your worst enemies, for they will allow you to go on your merry way and fall into the traps that lay in your path while not saying a word in warning. A true leader knows this and values opposing opinions.
That is all that has happened in this instance. Many of us can see a critical mistake that Bill has made that is going to sink him unless he gets his head down out of the clouds and corrects it. That mistake doesn't involve his attack on RF, as much as it does his arrogant attitude about it.
You should know this.
LoneWolf
Edited to put the apostraphes back in. They get eliminated whenever I paste from Word to here.
Edited by - LoneWolf on 23 November 2002 8:10:18
Edited by - LoneWolf on 23 November 2002 9:3:32
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Ray Franz And Things That Are Too Hard To Handle.
by Englishman ini see that ray franz is coming in for a fair bit of criticism due to his apparrant unwillingness to accept that jw's had a problem with the existence of child abuse when he was a member of the gb.
also, it would appear that ray is being chided for his belief in the rule of 2 witnesses before action can be taken against an abuser.
it seems to me that it is quite likely that ray wasn't aware that there was a serious abuse problem within the society when he was a member of the gb, if only for the reason that ray would find such an activity so detestable that he would believe it to be a virtually impossible act for anyone to perpetrate.
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LoneWolf
I must agree with teejay almost completely. Let's make it 99 44/100% percent anyway. The only change I would make is to make a suggestion instead of using this phrasing:
If he feels "comfortable" writing about the UN fiasco and not about a matter that he personally doesn't feel is a big deal (pedophilia), that's his right.
The suggestion being: The use of the term "comfortable" is accurate, although not in the sense that he is too closely associated with some real or imagined guilt associated with the pedophile problem. That is bull pucky drempt up by over active imaginations.
I also feel that it is a gross misrepresentation to suggest that he would feel that it is not a "big deal".
Rather, a far better explanation would be that he is familiar with the UN situation and feels that he knows enough about it to comment authoritively, without much risk of being proved wrong.
On the other hand, both culturally and spiritually, this pedophilia problem has caught most of the higher ups unexpectedly. As in most forms of government, the Organization is compartmentalized, with certain types of problems being handled by ones who specialize in those types of problems, and these are not necessarily shared with other departments. Also, it has come to the fore since his time. Speaking for myself, I would need some time to study the issue before commenting, for the simple reason that I would want my words to be trustworthy and accurate.
In some instances, I would not wish to comment at all, knowing full well that I don't know enough, and that others can do a better job. Given this scenario, it is not only a person's right to decide this for himself, it is his responsibility.
Jaracz and his henchmen are apparently using the same techniques that I have seen so many times in business organizations, that of allowing people to know only enough to accomplish whatever job they have been assigned. In this manner, good people with fine hearts can be induced to do horrible things to innocent people by the simple expedient of filling them full of spurious stories about what these people supposedly "did".
A few words may be worth repeating here: I called an aquaintance a few weeks ago with some information that he requested. This individual is in good standing and is of very high rank. I mentioned that I would like to run a few things by him to see if he could corroborate them for me. His answer was enlightening: "Tom, how can I? You know far more about what's going on than I do."
TraumaHound --- I think that you are very earnest and have a good heart. I just wish that you would take a few minutes reviewing what you think someone said betore you jump to conclusions. Nine-tenths of what you write would be unnecessary if you would try a little harder to understand the things people are trying to tell you.
As to the other three --- New Eyes, SLOAN, and WhyNow2000 --- it's not pretty to have to witness someone opening their mouth while letting their brains ooze out all over the floor.
LoneWolf
Edited by - LoneWolf on 20 November 2002 5:30:8
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Why I don't Want children
by LuckyLucy inpeople often ask me why i don't have children...."is it because you don't like them?
" it's quiet the contrary.
i like them alot!
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LoneWolf
Lucy ---
I must agree with the others that you have made the right choice for yourself. You should not have kids unless you really want them. And no, that wouldn't be selfish if you did.
Look at it this way. Yes, I've had some heartache and troubles in my life, but on balance I'm extremely grateful to be alive. I wouldn't have missed it for anything, and feel that I'm far ahead in that game. To dedicate oneself to the giving of others an opportunity to experience the same beauty and privilages that I have is a wonderful and loving thing. I want to share it with them.
Yes, I'm a father --- of six.
Tell me, are you glad to be alive?
LoneWolf
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LoneWolf
Hi, orangefatcat ---
I wasnt sure that you would catch this here, so I emailed it to you too.
Lone Wolf my brother this is eagle eyez I love what you did and you got the elders out, it must have been quite an story. Have you shared it with the forum and if not will you and if yes what thread is it please...
I just got back to the thread tonight and saw your question. No, that part I haven't shared with the forum yet but was planning to very soon, as it is to be a part of a series of open letters that I plan on sending directly to the Society.
Yup, it was rather interesting, and there was quite a bit of "concern" here for a time about it. I actually did contribute to one or more being removed on three occasions. It took a year or two for them to figure out some sort of payback.
My method was definitely "in your face", as force and intimidation seems to be the only language they understand here. It's a very conservative locale.
There is one letter that I've posted here though. "Spanking A Body Of Elders" is its name. It shook them up big time. Hehehehehe!!! Heres the address:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=27787&site=3
I must explain something though. My purpose was to make them back off, however with the odds so badly stacked against an individual trying to buck this Organization alone, I needed a little leverage. Therefore I used some of their mind games against them. It worked, but it also shakes other people up too. So be forewarned.
LoneWolf
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Kangaroos and the Flood
by Zechariah innoahs descendants .
genesis 10. the table of nations .
the japhethites .
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LoneWolf
larc --- I've read Letters to Earth. It's excellent, and well worth looking into. I recommend it.
To all --- I've seen many references to the theory that the Bible's account of the Flood is based on the Babylonian fables, etc., and I realize that many scholars teach that. However, I strongly feel that they are overlooking one major point. In comparing the two accounts, it soon becomes apparent that they are told from two vastly different viewpoints with animosity toward the other side being quite evident in the Babylonian version.
This is especially true in one account I have here at home, in which the gods Bel and Ninip chew out the god Elu for having caused the flood. Rather than having one taken from the other, comparing the accounts lends credance to the idea that they were both written independently of the other, yet of the same event.
Indeed, comparing the two gives one an excellent lesson on the subterfuge Satan used at that time. Of course, one needs to realize that the Bablyonians had their own names for the various characters, just as they had for Daniel and the three boys. However, the accounts are so similar in the specifics described that it leaves no doubt that it is the same event.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post parts of that account here. I say parts, as this account is a highly expanded telling of the Flood, with a great amount of detail included that is not in the Bible. It's lengthy.
LoneWolf
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LoneWolf
Born: 1940
First door-to-door: 1946
Baptised: 1955
DF'ed: Approx. 1988 (I blew the whistle on a bunch of elders and got them removed. Hehehehe!)
LoneWolf
Edited by - LoneWolf on 14 November 2002 5:4:5
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POSITIVE: To Bill Bowen & SilentLambs
by Amazing inlast comments regarding bill bowen & silent lambs: .
this is intended to be a positive treatment of the issue by pointing out some very useful things to bill bowen and the silentlambs organization.
i am staying clear of responding to bill's last comments as to debating things he stated which are irrelevant and not accurate.
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LoneWolf
The fact that BB and RF had a dispute is not important in my mind. They are both human beings, and in the stress of the times there are going to be things said or done that are not the most advantageous.
In my mind, the important thing is the way they are handled. One who is up front and mature will take direct action and face his or her imperfections without waffling. "I screwed up, and I apologize." goes a long, long way towards building trust and faith. Those who can't do that haven't grown up yet.
In this case, Bill and his followers have chosen the typical, whiney way that much of society has adopted in the last 40 years. When proven wrong, instead of being up front and caring for it in a mature manner, they pooh-pooh its importance, counterattack, claim to be persecuted, get all emotional, and anything else they can think of that will deemphasize the fact that they screwed up.
Until that day comes that Bill can find the manhood to post an apology right here on this board, the very forum where he screwed up, and quit the whining, then I would strongly suspect that he is good evidence that the Peter Principle is alive and well.
I am glad that he has had the successes that he has. I am also glad that the lawyers have entered the fray, for I suspect that his influence and effectiveness is on the decline. Someone will need to step into that vacuum, for the issue is far more important than someone's pride.
Those victims need more than a flash-in-the-pan.
LoneWolf
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My Humble Uneducated Opinion!
by 68storm ini would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your valued input on this board.
i will never forgive you for making it almost impossible for me to give up coming here.
this turned out to be like a drug for a weak willed person like myself.
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LoneWolf
Hi, 68storm ---
I too must agree that your thoughts are excellent and that you shouldn't worry about inadequacies. You're doing fine.
About AOL --- I have it too and sometimes it will kick you off if there hasn't been enough activity. If you're doing only a short answer or email, you will probably have time, but for the long ones I usually use one of the writing features available on the computor when offline. I use Microsoft Word. That way you can take as long as you want, and can save it or whatever you want to do.
Once it is done, hi-light it, then right click and click on "Copy" Then go to your email or here on the board and use the "Paste" feature that's on the bar above where you want to put it. That's where all the little icons are. If you put your cursor (the thing on the screen that moves when your mouse does) over the icon and hold still for a second or two, a word will pop up telling you what it is for. Just click on "Paste", and everything you just copied will appear in the box.
Hope this is understandable and that it helps. Keep up the good work.
LoneWolf